Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

njsavelli

Cadet
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
20
Let me start by saying its a 1967 18 horse Evinrude. About 2 years ago I ripped the pull cord out when i was starting it, then trying to put it back, spun the recoil the wrong way, so I took it to a marina to get it fixed. They said they put a new recoil spring in it so I ran it on a half hour boat ride at full throttle for 80% of the way (that was the first time I ran it once I got it fixed). Shut it down for 5 minutes, when to start it and it felt like the spring was locked up. Pulled it hard and it never recoiled. pulled it apart, the recoil spring was bent in 3 different spots. Took it back to the marina, questioned them on the new spring and they did the thing over again. Put a brand new spring in it, and said they started it 30 times and it worked fine. Put it on my boat ran full throttle again and shut it down in the middle of the lake, went to start it and the recoil felt locked up again. I really don't want to have to pull the cowl off, unscrew the recoil, and wind the pull rope up manually, and put the whole thing back together again every time I shut the motor off. One point I have to make it that it usually does this when i run the motor at a high rpm. I guess the guys at the marina don't know what they're doing so hopefully you guys can help me out, thanks.
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

I can only assume that when running, the flywheel is somehow raising to engage the manual starter pulley... OR the pulley is dropping down into the flywheel. Unfortunately you'll have to investigate that possibility. I should thnik that would make quite a noticable noise.

You aren't attempting to run that engine at full throttle in neutral are you?
 

njsavelli

Cadet
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
20
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

Hey Joe, It really isn't making any type of noise that I haven't noticed before. And i haven't run it full throttle in neutral. Although a quick fix I'm planning on is to reinstall the electric start, but that still doesn't fix the initial problem. Im just surprised my self the guys at the marina wouldn't have fixed it right the first time.(Or the second for that matter)
 

F_R

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
28,226
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

I find it mighty odd that they can't fix that recoil. It is one of the longest running and most plentiful starters ever made. There must be a bazillion of them out there on motors of various sizes.
 

kfa4303

Banned
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
6,094
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

If all else fails, you can just buy and bolt on another pull start from virtually any other FD/E, 18-20hp OMC motor. You shoul be able to find one on ebay for about $20-$30. Once fixed it should start without issue. My '66 20hp Johnson pull starts just fine so I don't need an electric start which saves space, money and maintenance.
 

HighTrim

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
10,486
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

Sounds like the spindle and spring are assembled incorrectly? Hard to say without inspection.
 

boobie

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
20,826
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

I agree with Joe. Seen this happen before where the motor is screwing up the rewind.
 

Steve A W

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 23, 2009
Messages
267
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

Any chance the motor backfired when shutdown?

Steve A W
 

racerone

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
39,015
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

That is a very simple starter mechanism and thousands were made.--Every shop has repaired dozens of them.--Need to look at other issues with the motor ----Is motor overheating ?----Is lower unit binding to make it feel like the starter is bad ?
 

boobie

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Messages
20,826
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

If you pulled the starter off, does it work okay ??
 

oldboat1

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Apr 3, 2002
Messages
9,612
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

having trouble getting clear about the timeline here. It sounds like this problem occurred a couple of years ago or so, was repaired, broke again, pulled apart, taken back to the shop and put back together with a new spring, then went through the process again (a couple of years ago?). That's where I'm kind of losing the narrative.

Is the motor intact now, but you are concerned that the problem will reoccur? (i.e., thinking of going to electric start now?) If that's the picture, I think I would pick up another assembly, and switch it out before using the motor again -- given the history. If you replace the assembly and then have the same problem, the cause has to be elsewhere. If everything is fine in that scenario, though, you unfortunately will have an extra assembly which may or may not have been fixed.

As stated above, the used assemblies are easily had pretty cheaply -- cheap enough to do the old parts switch and see if that solves your problem. I would like to hear more about the cause that Boobie and Joe describe, though, as I have never seen that and like to run these old motors. I can't see how the motor operation would affect the starter assembly unless the pawls are dropping because of a broken spring -- something strange like that. If the motor is somehow locking up on you like Racerone suggests, you could probably damage the starter assembly by yanking on it (although that would more likely bust the cord, I think). But it sounds like you have managed to get underway again even after the starter gives out, so the engine and lower unit seem to be working at that point....
 
Last edited:

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

Hey Joe, It really isn't making any type of noise that I haven't noticed before. And i haven't run it full throttle in neutral. Although a quick fix I'm planning on is to reinstall the electric start, but that still doesn't fix the initial problem. Im just surprised my self the guys at the marina wouldn't have fixed it right the first time.(Or the second for that matter)

NJsavelli..... So what did you find? Curious, has anyone had that flywheel off, and did this problem start shortly after that?

You don't actually say, BUT..... I'm assuming that this engine ran normally prior to that period of two years past when all of this manual starter malfunction popped up?
 

njsavelli

Cadet
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
20
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

ok so let me clarify this, after i pulled the pull cord straight out that day in 2012 i ran it to a boat show i was going to, shut it down, and then had a guy at a small shop rewind the cord since i had no idea how to do it correctly. Did that, fired it up gave it a little gas and then for some reason it died. And it wouldn't recoil. I eventually got it to run after about an hour of letting it sit. Got home, took the motor to a local marina and told them the issue i had and with it not recoiling so they replaced the recoil spring (july 2012, and i almost forgot to mention before all this I had spent $200 getting it tuned up at the same place, so obviously the engine shouldn't just die out like that after a complete tune up) In August 2012 i took it back and they told me that the reason it died was because i had the screw on the throttle setting all the way down, but I had been running it like that for about three years without any problems. And charged me $60 for the labor and new spring for the recoil.
So I took it out again in August just after having it fixed, started on the first pull and ran absolutely perfectly. So I shut it down at the dock after a half hour boat ride, like I said at about %80 of the way at full throttle, shut it down for 5 minutes went to pull it and it felt like the motor was completely seized up, thats how hard it was to pull. Pulled the recoil apart and looked at the spring and it was bent pretty bad in 3 different spots. Back to the shop.
I was really fed up with the motor after driving three hours to get to the river, spending all the money to get it fixed, and blowing my weekend I didn't touch till the next summer in late 2013. Told the guys they didn't fix it so they did it again no questions asked free of charge. They said they started it 30 times and it pulled fine, even though i told them to let it run on high throttle for a while, thats when the problem happens.
So i took it to a small lake last September knowing the thing was going to lock up i brought along my tools. I was right. after a half hour boat ride, shut it down in the middle of the lake and it locked up yet again. After I pull the recoil off and rewind it by hand it starts on the first pull and runs normally.

So to answer some of your questions:
Steve A W: The motor never back fired on me
Racerone: Its not over heating and I don't think its the lower unit. like i said it starts after i rewind the spring.
Boobie: when i pull the starter of it works fine
Joe Reeves: Yes the engine ran great before all this and it still runs like a champ mechanically, except for the pull of course.

I think i gave it in pretty good detail, let me know if you need me to clarify. Thanks guys.
 

bonz_d

Vice Admiral
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
5,276
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

Quite the delema. Wish I had an answer for you other than I think it's time to cut your losses and take it to a different shop.
 

racerone

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
39,015
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

Check to see if coils are rubbing on the flywheel.
 

Lone Duck

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
868
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

I kinda sounds like your motor is hydro locking on shut down ( gas or water leaking in to cyl after shut down ) Or your dogs on the rewind are not returning all the way into the re wind after start up causing the bent spring. Or both.
 

Lone Duck

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
868
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

If it is hydro locking when you take the time to fix the rewind the fuel or water leaks out of the cyl and you can then pull it over to start.
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

So i took it to a small lake last September knowing the thing was going to lock up i brought along my tools. I was right. after a half hour boat ride, shut it down in the middle of the lake and it locked up yet again. After I pull the recoil off and rewind it by hand it starts on the first pull and runs normally.

Too bad you aren't somewhere near central Florida... I'd really like to see that engine assembly. That manual starter is just about the most simple piece of mechanical component on the engine and once assembled properly, it stays that way UNLESS the flywheel is interfering with it. There is nothing else there capable of causing damage to the manual starter.

There is a locking groove on the bottom of the crankshaft that retains a spring assembly which in turn keeps pressure applied upon a lower crankshaft seal. By the same token, that spring keeps a downward pressure applied to the crankshaft itself. However, even if that spring broke, flew off in pieces, the c/shaft groove failed and allowed the spring to drop away.... it is still unlikely that the crankshaft could drift up far enough to allow the flywheel to hit the manual starter UNLESS something within the crankcase is badly flawed, broken, worn.

You say that the engine did run great years ago and no problem was encountered with the manual starter. Then, obviously between then and now, something has changed. If the manual starter is the same manual starter... repair it properly and set it aside, then start looking for the reason that the flywheel is hitting it now, as it did not years ago.

Oh, one question. I don't think it's been asked yet or mentioned.... When this manual starter locks up, spring bends all which ways and you then remove the manual starter from the engine at that same moment... Are you able to easily turn the flywheel with your hands?
 
Last edited:

njsavelli

Cadet
Joined
Feb 21, 2011
Messages
20
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

hey joe, yes the fly wheel does turn easily and the thing still runs awesome mechanically nothing seems wrong, but another thing I should add is when I shut it off on the lake that day and took it apart and rewound the spring, i ran the motor at about half throttle back to the dock, shut it off, and then it pulled and recoiled as normal.
 

Joe Reeves

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
13,262
Re: Need help on the absolute most annoying pull start issue

hey joe, yes the fly wheel does turn easily and the thing still runs awesome mechanically nothing seems wrong, but another thing I should add is when I shut it off on the lake that day and took it apart and rewound the spring, i ran the motor at about half throttle back to the dock, shut it off, and then it pulled and recoiled as normal.

Okay, then assuming that when the manual starter does lock up, the center bolt that retains the pulley spindle is still as tight as when you tightened it (pulley hasn't dropped any)....... Then, it's time to check out the powerhead as per my above reply #18. That flywheel is somehow hitting the manual starter pulley it would appear. I can think of no other reason for that problem. Let us know what you find.
 
Top