need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

[Bob427]

ok my trusty rude has finnally let me down

on the lake sunday start motor went to my fishing spot no problem
after about an hour tried to move this when the trouble began
started sounded a little rough didnt think much of it put in gear and stalled after about ten restarts it finnally kicked in and i motored closer to the ramp
ok then i started the kicker and let that run for about ten minutes and decided to try the 70hp again
same result after changing tanks from my 70hp tank to my kicker tank same dam thing
i had my buddy pump the ball while it was stalling and she caught and away we went back to the ramp no problems

at the ramp i shut it of and let it sit for about 5 mins and well same thing as before will not go into gear without stalling

so today i changed out the vro cause i have a spare
rebuilt all 3 carbs complete kits
checked compression 130 on all three
checked all ingition components with my meter all checked good resistance
power pack is one year old
coils and plus wires are one year old
timer base and stator look to be original
dont have a dva


now i put it in a barrel and it will idle but when i put in gear after its warmed up it will just stall
tach says it idleing at 1000
in gear before it stalls around 800

what gives i really dont know what eles to try hope some one has some other ideas
thanks

Bob

 

[Daviet]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

You've got good compression. Try using a timing light to check each cylinder and see if they are all firing correctly. If the spark checks out OK, try sguirting some fuel mixture into each carb and see if you have one not operating properly.

 

[Bob427]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

forgot to say i did check spark with my spark checker while it idles
and i have hot blue spark 7/16 air gap however i cant check in gear because it stall to fast
i did try and bump the choke and all it did was stall
i put my hand over each carb and it boggs down on each carb

 

[Bob427]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

Bump

 

[eavega]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

Have you checked the fuel pump output? I know its more of a longshot since you say that it will idle okay. Will it go into gear and run on the hose rather than in a barrel? At least that would give you a clue as to whether or not you are meeting excessive resistance when the prop is engaged and having to push against water. Also, I would try a cylinder drop test to see if all three are running at idle. You may have a bad fuel line that is only affecting the top or bottom carb. Motor will sound like its idling just fine even if only two cylinders are running.
Just some other suggestions.

Rgds

 

[Bob427]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

update

i just went out there and put my timing light on each cylinder and all are firing
so i put my hand over each carb for just a second
and
top carb wants to stall
middle carb wants to stall
bottom carb idle picked up

so i sprayed some premix down all carbs and top one wants to stall middle wants to stall
bottom one picks up rpm and runs pretty good

so i guess this must some type of fuel issue

 

[Bob427]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

just the bottom off and cleaned agian
started motor and well same result

dont know what eles to check

been my service manual about 20 times so far

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

Bottom Carburetor - With carburetor face plate off and engine running.... if fuel has a tendency to spray out the front of the carburetor, either the reed plate (leaf valve) is broken or one of the leafs is being held open with some foreign object.

If inserting two fingers into the throat of that bottom carburetor causes the engine to smooth out, then obviously the engine has been running on two cylinders. Either no fuel is being supplied to that carburetor OR the high speed jet (Located in the bottom center portion of the float chamber) is fouled. Check for the proper fuel flow to the carburetor (at the hose & also check the float needle valve).... and clean that high speed jet with a piece of single strand steel wire and compressed air.

Let us know what you find.

 

[Bob427]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

i did pull the feed line to the bottom carb and it does have fuel flowing to it
when i had the carb of this morning i did check the high speed jet and it was clean i did push a strand of wire trough it and even shined a lite trough it to make sure there was no crap in it
the float and needle are brand new i did check it by blowing into the carb float and it does seat and unseat when you tip the carb upside down
i just rechecked compression and still even at 130
i dont see any fuel spitting out of any of the carbs
how do you know if a reed plate is broken i looked in there and saw no foriegn objects in there and they all look seated agianst the castings
so if i put two fingers in that carb and it does pickup the rpms and smoothes out that means that the carb is not working?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

(You) - "So if i put two fingers in that carb and it does pickup the rpms and smoothes out that means that the carb is not working?"

(Me) - Yep..... Also means that the reed plate is seating properly too. Did you actually take the float needle valve apart to blow the passage out etc? In having that carburetor apart... did you forget to put that small gasket back on the center high speed nozzle?

If the two finger test causes a response, you're overlooking something within that carburetor.

Possible dumb question here.... that float installed right side up?

(Carburetor Float Setting)
(J. Reeves)

With the carburetor body held upside down, the float being viewed from the side, adjust the float so that the free end of the float (the end opposite the hinge pin) is ever so slightly higher (just ever so slightly off level) than the other end. And when viewed from the end, make sure it is not cocked.

 

[Bob427]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

ok thank you for your replies
gasket is on the nozzle
yes i did take out the brass float seat and sprayed and blew trough it
i will take carb of agian and recheck float

 

[eavega]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

I don't know if this it possible, but I THINK you can swap the top and bottom carb. Just to fully convince yourself its a carb issue, swap the carbs and see if the problem switches to the top cylinder.

-E

 

[Bob427]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

heres a couple of pics of my float as just took the carb off

 

[Bob427]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

i guess my next step will be to switch the upper and lower carb to see if the problem follows the carb
now if doesnt
could the motor possibly not making enough vacum to pull the fuel in or pulse the fuel pump?

 

[Bob427]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

now i did check the plugs new ones 6 trips on them to the set i took out
and the newest set dont have the light tan color the old ones had

could all this lead to an ignition part failing under load like the spark is getting suffed out

 

[Bob427]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

update

i just rechecked my timer base for resistane
and here are my results
on the 20 mega ohm scale
white to purple= 4.13
white to blue =4.44
white to green=5.02

white to black/white=450 ohms

now my service manunal says that there should about the same amount of resistance
on the white to the purple blue green
and cdi says these readings should be within 10% of each other
does this mean my timer base is shot

 

[Bob427]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

ok i do have a 89 120hp johnson that will on day replace this 70hp so i decided to ring out its timer base per cdi
and all of its leads coming from the base are dead even to one another
cant remember the values right now
i do believe that on my first go around with this i did not have my meter set to the right scale
so before i spend 200 bucks i would really like a second opinion

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

So did you switch the carburetors as you had planned, and if so, did the problem follow the carburetor?

 

[Bob427]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

i have not switched carbs yet
wanted to start over from the begining
now i leave for vaction so i wont be able to post back for a week

 

[Bob427]

Re: need help trouble shooting my 1995 rude 70hp will not run over idle in gear

oddly enough the geen lead goes to the bottom cylinder
the one with the highest resistance