Need Help With Force Motor

[brianvolt7]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

Guys,

I put gas in each cylendar and it started, ran for about 5 seconds it purred really nicely, then it died. Any recommendations for a next step?

 

[PaulO]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

My guess is it is not getting fuel through to the cylinders.

Air vent on tank
Primer bulb
Filter maybe
Fuel Pump
Needle and seat stuck
Float stuck
Passages blocked
Fuel not atomising
Some restriction between carbs and cylinders

Someone else may suggest otherwise.

You are getting closer. Process of elimination!


Disconnect the fuel hose at the carbies, point it away from the engine and have someone crank it over. Is it pumping fuel?

 

[brianvolt7]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

PaulO,

First off, thanks for hangin in there with me, I appreciate it.

I disconnected the line at the bottom where it enters the lower carb. I then cranked the motor and I got a ton of fuel coming out of the line.

What would you recommend as the next step?

 

[PaulO]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

Maybe the idle passages are clogged up which is why it will not start??
If you could run a bit of fuse wire between both terminals of the "start" microswitch, put it in gear and give it a bit of throttle, choke while starting and see what happens.Place a rag under the carbies to catch excess fuel. It may run at hi revs but not idle?? Be very careful with this option keeping everyone and everthing away from the engine and don't forget the water.

I am not sure if blowing compressed air into the idle adjust screw will damage anything but if it didn't I would give that a go. Confirm that with an experienced member though..try Frank Acampora The idle screws initial setting should be 1 full turn from lightly seated position and will be probably positioned around 1 1/8 of a full turn after final tuning.

The following is just looking for restriction in flow due to gumming or impurities in the system.

*I would take off the fuel bowls of both carbs.
*Disconnect the line from one of the Carbs at the T intesection.
*Blow into the line while lifting up the corresponding float and note the

sound of rushing air through the inlet valve seat until it stops from the rising float . Note the level of the float. It should be parallel with the upper metal bowl of the carby.​

* Blow bit of compressed air up the main nozzle

 

[brianvolt7]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

I will try this in the morning and let you know. I am sure it is on the verge of stating. Can I use canned air for the compressed air or should I use my compressor with an air nozzle? Also possibly another clue, when I choke the carbs while attempting to start, they leak an excessive amount of fuel out of the front. The fuel literally runs out of the front of the carbs.

 

[PaulO]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

Well it is funny you say that. This morning I checked my float levels because my engine does exactly the same thing. However, my engine stand is vertical which makes the engine lean forward which is what allows the excess fuel to run out the carby. When it goes on the transom the slight angle in addition to the engine weight will tip the level the other way and hopefully make the excess fuel run into the engine.

The float levels were as theClymers manual suggested 'parallel with the carby flange' and the needles sealed when the floats were parallel so I can only presume that is normal.

You are getting fuel through the carby if it is running out the front after choking.

Compressed air will give the greatest force.

As said before, 'Run a bit of fuse wire between both terminals of the "start" microswitch, put it in gear and give it a bit of throttle, choke while starting or squirt a bit more fuel into cylinders without choking and see what happens. Place a rag under the carbies to catch excess fuel when choking and don't forget the water.

 

[brianvolt7]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

OK, so I used a household drinking straw to push air through the carb fill while pushing the float upward. The air traveled through and slowly resisted to a stop the further I got it towards the top, ultimately cutting me off once the float was touching the bottom of the carb.

I made a jumper wire with lugs and installed it across the micro switch. This enabled me to put it in gear and full throttle while attempting to start. I put fuel into each cylinder via the spark plugs, I then gave it a shot of starter fluid via the carbs. This gave me a few pops but did not start. I tried starting under choked and non choked conditions all in full throttle forward gear. Fuel continues to run out after choking and cranking. It does not run out if I don?t choke the carbs.

Of course I am still having trouble with the starter; I will have my new one by Thursday. Also, even though I changed my plugs about a month before the season ended last year, I am installing new plugs on Wednesday when they arrive.

Should I try octane booster in the tank? Maybe it?s the fuel itself, I used mid grade 89, and maybe it needs to be 92. The fuel sticker indicates a minimum 85 octane.

 

[PaulO]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

wait for the starter. try it again.

The float should shut off the fuel when it is level with the carby body, not touching the lower carby (I take this to mean float is angled upwards past the level position?) Because the pump supplies fuel at a greater rate than the engine needs to consume, having a float that allows fuel to get past the needle will see a rich condition at high power = Higher than necessary fuel consumption.

 

[brianvolt7]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

PaulO,

Well, not quite touching, the floats appear to be level when they are almost touching the bottom of the carb, about a 16th of an inch, this is when they shut off the air flow. Is this normal?

I will try to start it again again on Thursday when I get the starter.

 

[brianvolt7]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

Got the starter, didn?t help. I got it to pop a couple of times but just wont start. Any thoughts?

 

[PaulO]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

Did the new starter crank over faster?

 

[brianvolt7]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

Yes, much faster, but the gear on the new starter still disengages like the old one. It happens like this, I will be cranking along and the gear drops off the fly wheel. If I leave power applied it continues to spin. Sometimes it will crank for 1 or 2 seconds and drop out sometimes it will be 5 or more that it will crank for. The motor actually burps slightly like it is attempting to start when the starter drops I am getting new plugs in a couple of days in the mail, I live in the middle of nowhereville so I mail order just about everything, I am hoping this will help.

I also picked up a new battery yesterday with 725 CCA just to be sure that this was not part of the problem.

What would you recommend as the next step?

 

[PaulO]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

When you got it to run for 5 seconds how much fuel did you put in and was the starter cranking normally?

 

[brianvolt7]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

I put in just about a half of a drinking straw into each cylinder. It was the old starter so it was cranking very slow. Each carb got a shot of starter fluid as well. Also I cleaned to boots for the spark plug lines but is there a way to replace the boot without replacing the blue module?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

The spark plug boots are replaceable on the blue Prestolite ignition coils. They can be removed and replaced, however, the spark plug wires themselves are part of the coil. They are not meant to be removed from the coil.

 

[brianvolt7]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

Great, can I get these at Autozone or are these factory/aftermarket parts?

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

You should be able to get replacements at most auto parts stores. Just need to verify the diameter of the spark plug wire matches the spark plug boot for a good snug moisture proof fit. Typically, the standard diameter for the wires on the blue coils is 7mm or a tad over 1/4 of an inch. You want to ask for 90 degree spark plug boots for 7mm spark plug wire.

 

[moparman]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

have you checked the flywheel key??? if you had the flywheel off and didn't torque it to spec's, then it Will shear in a heart beat,throwing the timing off. Just my two cents worth,because from what your describing ,it doesn't sound like it's even trying to hit ,might save you some time to check it,it should be 90- 93 ft-lb's

 

[brianvolt7]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

I believe this is the large nut on the very top of the motor? I have not removed this but I will definetly check it out. Do I just remove the flywheel and look for the shaft Key?

 

[PaulO]

Re: Need Help With Force Motor

You will need a bearing puller to remove the flywheel. If the timing is out the engine should still run. Try this first:

Take the plug out of the top cylinder and use a long screw driver to touch the piston. Rotate the the flywheel until the piston is at top dead centre. Look at the timing mark bolted to the top Manifold. There will be angle numbers on the flywheel from about+4? to -32?. The timing mark should correlate to the 0? mark on the flywheel. As I said even if it was out a number of degrees that should not stop the engine from starting.

The starter should be cranking without hesitation and if it is not that needs to be addressed.