Need help with rough running 3.0 Merc please

jdwky

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Hi all- first post here. I've been reading and searching through this awesome forum for 2 days now. I recently bought a 1995 Sea Ray 175 with a 3.0L Merc/Alpha 1. The previous owner had just sunk $1700 in repairs into the boat and I thought certainly it would run good for a while. I was wrong...

Let me start stating facts-
Previous marine shop states that for $1700, they replaced/fixed: Head gasket, lifters, rebuilt carb, replaced starter.

I water tested the boat before I bought it, and it seemed to run fine (though I am a first time boat owner.)

3rd time I have the boat out, it starts running poorly. Same symptons as what it was doing to the previous owner. I call the shop that worked on it last, and they get real defensive and telling me the warranty on their 2-week old work is non-transferrable. So I take it to another mechanic and for $500 he says he adjusts the carb (said too rich) and replaces the valve cover gasket (showed me old one, it was split in half from previous mechanic over-tightening).
Take the boat out again, still running poorly - 2/3 throttle and up there is stuttering, hesitation, and pinging/knocking sounds at WOT. Also the tach never indicates over 3200 RPM ever, and i've tried everything from a 21 to a 15 pitch prop. I have a 17 on there now.
Took it back to mechanic again, he makes some more adjustments and puts in "hotter plugs", saying the plugs had fouled again. Take the boat again, problem is even worse, limp the boat back to trailer and here I am.

Now I've decided to try and fix as much myself as I can. I am definitely a DIYer, having worked on many motorcycles and cars over the years, including re-jetting carbs. I checked the plugs and their gaps, and from the 15 min test last time, I cant see any indication of anything on these new plugs. I ran a compression test, and the readings came back 160, 135, 160, 175.
I was going to replace the water/fuel sperator canister, but there doesn't seem to be one on this boat that I can find. Good idea to add this on? I checked the fuel pump sight tube, no fuel in there. After reading this forum, I figured I should check the timing, which is a process I am familiar with, but many people say to check the points and dwell first. This is something I have NO idea about. Any ideas???

To recap, here is the symptoms:
2/3 throttle and up, hesitation, stuttering, missing engine.
WOT = pinging/knocking sound, about 2-3 times every 15 seconds, engine runs even worse.
Engine never gets over 3200 rpm - related to engine problem or possibly faulty tach?
Any help is much appreciated!!! I want to be out on the water, not wrenching on an engine!! :)
 

Don S

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Re: Need help with rough running 3.0 Merc please

I figured I should check the timing, which is a process I am familiar with, but many people say to check the points and dwell first.

I would be worried about those "People" your engine shouldn't have points or dwell. You should have a Delco EST distributor (all electronic)
There is a process for setting the distributor into base timing for setting, plus you need to check and see if the advance is actually working.
For starters, here is a link to the OEM service manual. I think you may find it handy for checking the timing.
On those 3.0L engines there were timing changes if they had blown a head gasket. I will see if I can find the service bulletin for you. Do you have a Merc SN for your engine?

http://www-alt.mercurymarine.com/mnetdata/SERVICE/CRUISER/Servmanl/13/13covr2.pdf
 

jdwky

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Re: Need help with rough running 3.0 Merc please

I would be worried about those "People" your engine shouldn't have points or dwell. You should have a Delco EST distributor (all electronic)
There is a process for setting the distributor into base timing for setting, plus you need to check and see if the advance is actually working.
For starters, here is a link to the OEM service manual. I think you may find it handy for checking the timing.
On those 3.0L engines there were timing changes if they had blown a head gasket. I will see if I can find the service bulletin for you. Do you have a Merc SN for your engine?

http://www-alt.mercurymarine.com/mnetdata/SERVICE/CRUISER/Servmanl/13/13covr2.pdf


OF 455317

Yes, I doubt the competency of all of the previous parties involved with this "yacht".

Thanks to your posts, I already downloaded and read the service manual. Glad to know I wasn't missing something about the dwell... I printed out the pages about checking timing and will go rent a timing light tomorrow. I do indeed have the EST ignition. I appreciate in advance the help with setting the timing correctly!

Do any of the symptons I mentioned sound like possibly water in the fuel or do you think the problem is in the ignition or carb?
Thanks!!
 

Don S

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Re: Need help with rough running 3.0 Merc please

Well, I did find the service bulletin, but it's for 98 and newer, so didn't fit your year, or your SN. (It started at 0LXXXXXX and up)
I would put a water seperating fuel filter on it, somewhere between the tank and the fuel pump. After you do, change the filters in the fuel pump and the carb. If they are getting plugged up, you could be getting a lean condition and causing it to pop and carry on.
That one cylinder with only 135 psi is also below the 20% limit that GM/Mercruiser gives for variation.
Might want to do a leakdown test on that cylinder and find out what is leaking.
 

JustJason

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Re: Need help with rough running 3.0 Merc please

Dons s said:
20% limit that GM/Mercruiser gives for variation

is it down to 20% now?
I thought it was the lowest can be no lower than 70% of the highest, with each cylinder being over 100psi.
 

Don S

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Re: Need help with rough running 3.0 Merc please

is it down to 20% now?

No, I just hit the wrong number, should have been 30%. Still over the 15% from the real world, that means something.
 

JustJason

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Re: Need help with rough running 3.0 Merc please

I agree.... 135 when the rest are 160+ should be a red light.....
but i betcha that 135 isn't the problem.... its the result of another problem...
 

Don S

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Re: Need help with rough running 3.0 Merc please

but i betcha that 135 isn't the problem.... its the result of another problem...

I agree, advance problems, lean condition, another blown head gasket because things weren't done correctly the first time.
Just the normal stuff. ;)
 

ATAYLOR61822

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Re: Need help with rough running 3.0 Merc please

If the only issue you have is going from almost full throttle to W.O.T. .... Have we checked the accelerator pump? :confused:
 

jdwky

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Re: Need help with rough running 3.0 Merc please

I haven't checked the accelerator pump.

Just went out and bought a nice digital timing light. Followed the instructions per the service manual. Could not locate the engine disconnect switch. I followed the wire from the distributor and it went straight back into a wrapped up bunch of wires into a firewall type area, with a couple crimp-style connectors in between. I'm suspecting it's just been bypassed at some point? I made a jumper wire and jumped the 2 dangling distributor wires like it said, but the timing read 4* BTDC whether the jumper was in or not........? Is that bad? I could not figure out how to loosen the distributor bolt but i was able to twist it by hand anyway. I adjusted it to 27* BTDC while running at 2200 RPM with no jumper, is that where I should leave it? None of the settings seemed to match up: 1* BTDC with the jumper in, 12* BTDC without it, and 27* BTDC at 2400-2800 RPM max - None of those matched up. Which should I adjust it to?
Also, re the 2nd cylinder with low compression, with the engine running on the hose, and my head up next to the engine, it does sound louder around the top of the engine around the #2 cylinder... Also, the tachometer on the dash is reading lower than the RPM's on the digital timing light, is that hard to fix/replace?
Any and all advice is appreciated!
 

jdwky

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Re: Need help with rough running 3.0 Merc please

If the only issue you have is going from almost full throttle to W.O.T. .... Have we checked the accelerator pump? :confused:

OK, just checked the accelerator pump, its working fine. It sprayed in a steady stream of fuel as the throttle was advanced to WOT. The "adjustable accelerator pump lever" was set in the 2nd position (0.5 cc less fuel per stroke), I moved it back to the top (full) position in case there is a lean condition going on (since I havent been able to check the fuel pump filter or carb filter, and there isnt enough time on these new plugs to get a read off of them).

Just checked the #2 and #3 plugs and there was a small bit of wet oil on them...... ?
 

jdwky

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Re: Need help with rough running 3.0 Merc please

Bump... Don? Anybody else with ideas?

Got the fuel/water filter separator installed! Piece of cake once I finally found the right brass barb fitting...

I am noticing the the above cylinder #2 (the one with low compression), it sounds louder than the rest of the engine block. Like a metal on metal clanking noise.. I'm assuming that could be related to the low compression on that cylinder. Would that be the rocker arms? Or valve bent/mal-adjusted?

Still, I dont think that is the root of the problem here...
 
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