Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

[93bayliner1800]

Re: Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

Also I am sure he was meaning 2 or 3 tubes of sealant.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

Interesting. The top of my rub rail is almost flush with the boat (I was thinking of sealing that as well anyway) but the bottom has quite a large gap between the two. Would you still leave it unsealed? Also, do you use just regular silicone or some other type of marine sealant? We used a marine sealant to seal up the 8" or so gap we found missing last year.

If its a huge unsightly gap then yea .. go ahead and caulk it with Silicone after installation.

Sorry if this is a dumb question....by carts I assume you mean cartons and not tubes?!! I definitely would have underestimated that. How many tubes are in a carton?

Yea sorry about that .. my mistake. We call Cartridges 'Carts' at work. We use both the caulk gun Carts and the tubes ( the small little hand squeeze tubes ) .. So yes 2-3 caulk gun tubes.

** No need to apply silicone or 4200 on the backface of the RR. 4200 the Holes of EVERY screw hole you can see. Do we do this and then let it cure BEFORE we put the screws back in?

Nope .. Screw as soon as you want.

So it's okay to replace the short ones with the 1"?

I dont see why not unless like I said there is a screw below that at the hull deck joint ( at this point the screw is just for show ). Keep those smaller screws in a dixie cup just in case you hit a hull/deck screw head.

Oh yea..forgot about the roll of paper towels and trash bag that you should have handy ..

YD.

 

[faithful]

Re: Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

Ok?I finally got the rub rail taken off. The longer screws were only around the nose of the boat and along the rear and the rear corners (some short ones there too). All short ones along both sides.
I have a few questions. First off?.how in the &$%#@ (sorry, not very lady like, I know) do you get this crap off!!!!! I?m pretty sure it?s silicone?and it sucks!!! I?m trying a 5 in 1 tool, a steak knife a paring knife. I haven?t tried the sharpened bent butter knife like Yacht Dr. suggested yet but not sure it would work any better. And all these things scratch the gel coat if not very careful. I just keep thinking there has got to be a better way. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. (hope I didn?t post too many pics)

(most of these pics are taken looking up under the deck/hull (hope that the right terminology) seam.
2[SUP]nd[/SUP] question. In the picture below, you can see that the caulking has made a good seal with no gaps, unlike?..

Here....where there is a very large gap. So my question is?..do you think it?s okay to just fix the places where there is a gap (large or small) and leave alone those spots where it still has a good seal? That sure would save me a lot of time. I want to do it right though so what are your opinions on this? Also I still will have to remove all the silicone that ran along the bottom of the rub rail too so that will take some time.

How much of this stuff do I have to remove? Every little trace? Or is it ok to leave a little?

This was the rear of the boat under the rub rail. Ick!

There are more pics at photobucket. Username: amwalker They are a subfolder under rub rail removed.
I have a couple more questions that I'll put in a separate post after this so I can add more pics. I know I have been slow getting this done. I hate the heat and it's been around 100 and sometimes more and with our typical Nebraska humidity it just plain stinks to be outside. I need a "cooled" shop to work in. LOL

 

[faithful]

Re: Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

Just a couple more questions. I only found a couple stripped hull/deck screws. These are about 8 inches apart. All the other screw holes are from the rub rail. Yacht Dr. said to drill new holes for the stripped ones. I was going to make one just to the right of the second hole from the yellow marker. Is that a good spot?

I posted several more pics here. I thought this was really strange. This is the center of the rear of the boat under the rub rail. It looks like they cut some of that lip away. If you look in some of the other pics below, it looks like saw marks. What would that be about? And how to I handle that when filling in with the 3m 4200.....do I just put some extra there to make sure it's filled in good?

Thanks again for everyone's help. I sincerely appreciate it!!!!

 

[faithful]

Re: Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

I found out that a fillet knife works GREAT for removing that silicone. I got it all off and just need to go over it with some rubbing alcohol to clean it up. I read somewhere on here that it works well to ball up what's left and was sceptical but tried it anyway and to my surprise, it worked. So now I just have to go around and clean up with that and then some acetone and I'll be ready to put it back together. I have a few questions. In the front of the boat and along the rear and the corners (on the rub rail) the screws were mostly long (#8 1 1/4") but along both sides the screws were short (3/4") and none of them were on top of the hull deck screws. The hull deck screws were a mix of short and long also. Yacht Dr. suggested that all the rub rail screws should typically be the same so should we go with the #8 1 1/4" all the way around both the rub rail and the hull/deck joint? With the rub rail on and this size of screw in, there is about 3/16" going through to the inside .....is this ok? and if we use the same size for hull/deck joint there will be a little more sticking out since it won't be going through the rub rail so should we maybe use 1" screws there? I got a package of the 1 1/4" and one of the 1" from Fastenal but need to order some more and not sure what sizes we should get. I hope all that made sense.

I'll post pics in next post.

Thanks

 

[faithful]

Re: Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

This is after removing the caulking but before final cleanup.

Up close

Not sure how to handle this spot since we since we are doing full resto yet. Think we will just make sure to fill it in good in that spot with the 3m 4200 unless someone lets us know that that's not okay for now. And the screw that's still there....There are about 3 of these on both sides of the boat that have a nut on the inside and I just haven't gotten them out yet. Any ideas as to why there are like that and not just plain screws like the rest?

Still wondering what this was about. It's at the rear of the boat in the middle and looks like someone cut part of the bottom off for some reason. I think I posted a closeup of it 2 or 3 posts up. Any thoughts on that?

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

And the screw that's still there....There are about 3 of these on both sides of the boat that have a nut on the inside and I just haven't gotten them out yet. Any ideas as to why there are like that and not just plain screws like the rest?

Hmm..probably to pull the joint together where they wanted it before going around with screws. But who knows for sure.

YD.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

You only need enough screw to get through the hull deck joint.

If you need 1 or 2 1.5" #8s' then you have to use that .. if your 1.5" does not interfere with anything on the inside then you can order up and use 1.5" on everything. It wont help .. but it wont hurt ( Mox Nix ). Dont order up 2 seperate sized screws just to get it together if you dont need to.

I would keep the through bolted screws the same. Fill what you can with caulk when you need to.

If something goes tight when screwing in your screws..take that screw out and Throw it away ! .. use another screw ( you dont want to pop a head of a screw ).

Any other questions please just post it up ( even a Bump .. Im Subscribed to this thread ) .

YD.

 

[faithful]

Re: Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

Thank you YD! I had him take back the 1" and order 2 more bags of the 1 1/4". He also got new replacements for the bolted screws. When we were seeing how far the longer screws went through to the inside, I noticed that not all the screw holes went all the way through the hull. These were the screws that attached the rub rail so since were were using all long screws we will be drilling pilot holes first.

As far as sealing everything back up...the plan is to caulk (4200) the hull/deck joint real good then caulk all the screw holes and put in all the hull/deck screws and bolted screws. Then screw the RR back on.

Questions: Does it matter how much the 4200 has set up before we get to the point of screwing the rub rail back on? When we are putting 4200 in all the screw holes obviously we aren't going to slop it all over but do we need to clean any excess up really well so RR doesn't get "glued" to the boat? Also, do we need to put 4200 in the screw holes of the RR since the holes in the hull/deck joint will already be filled with it?

Thanks!

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

Questions: Does it matter how much the 4200 has set up before we get to the point of screwing the rub rail back on?

Not really .. you can start screwing the RR whenever you like ( the RR screws dont need to be all the way through the hull deck joint )

When we are putting 4200 in all the screw holes obviously we aren't going to slop it all over but do we need to clean any excess up really well so RR doesn't get "glued" to the boat?

You dont need to fill all of the RRs' screw holes after you screwed in your hull deck joint.

Also, do we need to put 4200 in the screw holes of the RR since the holes in the hull/deck joint will already be filled with it?

Here is what I would do..

1. Tape your deck edge and hull edge where the gap meets.

2. Put in your through bolts threaded with the nuts loosely ..

3. Pump in your caulk in your hull deck seam.

4. Tighten up your Through Bolts to where you like them ( not too hard or you might crack the deck ).

5. Screw in your SS screws.

6. Scrape off any spoogedged out caulking along your tapelines

7. Pull the tape.

8. Install the rubrail ( you only need to put the tip of the screw into the caulk before screwing into it .. this caulk will not seal the thread of the screw..but more of the Head of the screw ).

9. The rubber insert could be a Biach..lay it out in the sun before the instal. You should go and buy a Screen tool to help get that thing in. Put the top of the insert in and work your bottom with the Screen roller tool ( leverage ). Dont cheese out on the screen roller tool. You should have 2 people working with the insert..one to hold/pull while one does the inserting ..

Hope this helps .

YD.

 

[faithful]

Re: Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

We got everything done but installing the rub rail insert (it's sitting in the heat as I type). I have my screen roller ready and my 5 in 1 tool too.

A couple of things I learned. We shouldn't haven't let the hull/deck joint set as long as we did before finishing it (we went on vacation and had other obligations when we got back) because the joint "settled" and even with the 8 through bolts in (4 on each side) a lot of the holes were not lined up so we had to use a jack and a 2x4 to raise each section of deck slightly and insert a few screws around to hole it in place while we put the caulking in. Also, we had some pretty tight spots to try and get the caulking in while others were quite large so hubby didn't cut much of the tip off the caulk tube so he would be able to get up in those small spaces and it took a long time to get the whole boat done since caulking was coming out so slow. By the time we got to screwing all the hull/deck screws in and then removing the tape, it had set up quite a bit (pretty sure it was over 100 degrees yesterday) and that made it hard to get a clean line when removing the tape. It still looks pretty good though.

I do have a couple questions. YD said to silicone the top of the rub rail. We have some SiliconeUltra Kitchen and Bath on hand....would that work? Or is there a specific type of silicone we should use instead? He also said he doesn't caulk the bottom in order to let any water get out. I mentioned that there is quite a gap (1/4" or so) under the rub rail around quite a bit of the boat and he said that we could go ahead and fill it. OK.....I'm wondering if that's a "could" or a "should". I really don't want water not being able to get out and I care more about that then what it looks like without being filled in with silicone. Here are a few pics....what to you think? Fill in or leave it? You out there YD?


I know it's kind of hard to tell in the pics but the caulking you can see is up in there a little ways and not flush with the bottom of the rub rail. There would be quite a bit to fill. I didn't take a picture of it but I should also mention that the rub rail is in 3 pieces so there are two places where the RR butts up against the next piece and a place for water to enter so if I seal the bottom I will have to seal those joints also, correct?

Thanks again for the help.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

Yes Im still here ..

I would fill the hull deck flange ( now that its fastened ) with caulk to the edge.

Install the Rub rail after that. See what is there after the rub rail is on there.

I just dont like the underside of the RR caulked... unless absolutely needed.

YD.

 

[faithful]

Re: Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

Yes Im still here ..

I would fill the hull deck flange ( now that its fastened ) with caulk to the edge.

Install the Rub rail after that. See what is there after the rub rail is on there.

I just dont like the underside of the RR caulked... unless absolutely needed.
'
YD.

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying or if I just didn't make things clear in my post.

The hull deck flange is already filled with the 4200 and the rub rail is already installed. It's just the rubber insert that we have left to put on. What you were seeing in the pics IS what was left after RR was on. I will post a few more pics and maybe they will show better what I'm trying to explain.

This pic is of the RR. You can see the grove where the insert will go...and also the gap that is left at the bottom. This is the gap I'm talking about and wondering if I should fill. Hopefully you can tell that there is quite a gap there since you can't see the hull/deck caulking. I don't mind not filling it....just making sure that it's ok to have that big a gap not filled.

This is a pic looking up at the bottom of the RR....you don't notice the insert grove in this pic cuz the camera is underneath it....and the caulking you see is the hull/flange caulking we put in. That caulking is up a ways from the bottom of the RR as you can hopefully tell in the 1st pic where you can't see the caulking.

Here is another picture of the front of the RR.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

You dont need to caulk the underside.

What sealant did you use for your hull/deck ? 4200 ?

YD.

 

[faithful]

Re: Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

You dont need to caulk the underside.

What sealant did you use for your hull/deck ? 4200 ?

YD.

Yes....we used the 4200. Is there a specific type of silicone we should use to seal along the top of the RR?

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

Nope .. just prep it before you caulk it. YD.

 

[faithful]

Re: Need help with rubrail/cap-hull joint letting water in.

OK great! That will be my project for today. Thanks again!