Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

emtfire44

Cadet
Joined
Jun 10, 2007
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10
Okay, first I love this forum, lots of great information.

I have searched and been troubleshooting for over 4 weeks now, and not had any success.
Heres the situation. 22ft 1990 searay with 4.3l mercruiser, Alpha 1 drive.
I had replaced the engine with a rebuilt one. The engine came with an electric fuel pump, so I added it on.

Since the rebuild. I have done the following. All new plugs, wires, distributor cap, new filters, complete tune up. Checked timing, all good. Runs on land, no problems.

I go to the lake, idle at aboutt 1200rpms through the channels to get to the lake, 20 minutes, get out and open her up, she runs great, planes out quickly, running about 4,000 rpm, then she bogs down while in wot, boat slows to about 2,ooo rpms, then surges back, and then right back down, I have to cut throttle have way, and play with the throttle to keep her moving forward. Head back in to port, during the 20 minute ride in she does the same thing at a much lower rpm 2,000 too 1200, then when I reach the dock, she dies, very hard to restart.
Get it home, and do the following. Drain all gas (which was fresh) refill tank with fresh gas again, check antisiphon valve, check breathing tube for gas tank, all good. Check fuel lines, replace fuel filter. take her back out the next day, she runs great, no problems, sputters only a few times, but mostly runs great.
Go out the next day, 1/2 tank of gas, and get out after the 20 minute run through the channel, get on the lake wot, runs great. Do some trolling for some salmon, about an hour of this, the boat just stops. Won't restart. Cranking and cranking, finally got her to start, and head back in 5 miles out, She won't go WOT, runs barely at plane. and continues to bog, and surge all the way in, no matter the rpm. Get to the dock, she dies, won't restart.

Get it home do the following, drain gas tank, check lines, replace fuel filter. Check my screens and diaphram in fuel pump, no problems. Refill the gas tank, and head out the next day. Get out in about 20 minutes no problems, hit wot, no problems, begin trolling, at 1200 rpms, for about 20 mintues, and she dies. Could not get her to restart. Let it sit for about 20 mintues and try starting it again. Nothing, not even an attempt to start, sitting out on the lake for about 3 hours, trying to get her to start, nothing. She did run for about 15 seconds, lots of white smoke, ran very poorly, and died. Smelled of gas, lots of gas vapor coming out of the carb. Though vapor lock, opened fuel cap, but no results. Finally got a tow back in. Now I have rebuilt the carb.
She runs good in the driveway, but I don't want to get stuck out on the lake again. What else could possibly be causing my problem. I am thinking I should just hook up the mechanical pump, and be done with the electrical one, could this be the problem. Also noted that my oil level has increased. No water is in it. Smells of gas, but not sure. I will drain and do an oil change.

Well thanks for listening, and in advance thanks for the advice.
 

Maclin

Admiral
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May 27, 2007
Messages
6,761
Re: Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

Sounds like flooding to me. How did you try to start it in that condition out on the lake? Did you open the throttle all the way to try to overcome the flooding? If not, it may have started that way. If so, sometimes they are so flooded they just are not going to start unitl the spark plugs can dry out. That is serious flooding, though, and will cause other symptoms later. The oil level rising and smells of gas sure sounds like flooding to me. The rebuilt carb should fix the problem. You do have to change the oil, like, NOW! And I would recommend changing again soon just to be sure.
 

Flukinicehole

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
May 29, 2004
Messages
365
Re: Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

Did you check the pressure of the electric pump?
 

emtfire44

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Joined
Jun 10, 2007
Messages
10
Re: Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

Okay, well I got the thing started in the drive way, after the rebuild carb. Won't idle now. runs smooth from 1000 rpm up. at idle very rough, almost sounds like it is missing.

changed oil too.

Have not tested the pressure on the fuel line, will try that once I get it running right. What should the pressure be at idle, and at wot?

I attempted to mess with the screw beneath the carb, has a spring on it. Turned it left slowly counting the turns, with no results. Went back to begining and turned it right slowly counting turns. again no result in a steadier idle.

Pulled some plugs, and they were black, lots of carbon? and they were dry. I will pull the other side to what shape they are in.
 

emtfire44

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Jun 10, 2007
Messages
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Re: Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

In order to get it started the first couple of times on the lake, Yes, I would have to full throttle, and back it off, pumping it if you will to get it to go. Once it would run, back to neutral, it would idle good, and then start to head back to port, it would begin bogging down.
 

Don S

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Re: Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

Have not tested the pressure on the fuel line, will try that once I get it running right.

You need to test it NOW, not later, the reason the thing is running bad could be too much pressure and it just keeps flooding the engine out. At higher rpm the engine can keep up (a little bit) but you are dumping raw gas into the manifold if the pump pressure is to high and pushing the float needle off it's seat.

You mentioned the pump came with the engine, but we have no idea if this was a marine engine (and fuel pump) or just something you found advertised in a free ads paper.
 

emtfire44

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Jun 10, 2007
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Re: Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

You need to test it NOW, not later, the reason the thing is running bad could be too much pressure and it just keeps flooding the engine out. At higher rpm the engine can keep up (a little bit) but you are dumping raw gas into the manifold if the pump pressure is to high and pushing the float needle off it's seat.

You mentioned the pump came with the engine, but we have no idea if this was a marine engine (and fuel pump) or just something you found advertised in a free ads paper.

I will test the pressure now. and post the results.
It is a rebuilt marine engine. the company that rebuilt it sent the pump with it. What is the range of psi I should be looking for on the fuel pump?
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

but we have no idea if this was a marine engine (and fuel pump) or just something you found advertised in a free ads paper.

Ooh, no slack Don!:D
 

Don S

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Re: Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

You should be seeing 3-7 psi with your mechanical pump, so you should see the same thing with the electric pump. Is it hooked to an oil pressure switch??? What kind of fuel pump is it.?

Ooh, no slack Don!:D
I've got burned on that type information more than once.
 

emtfire44

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Re: Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

Okay, I finally got a chance to get out and work on it. Here's whats been done.
Oil Change, it did smell of gas.

Carb was rebuilt. I took the "old" electric pump off, and put a new one on. this pump is a 3.5psi to 7psi pump for carbereturs. Got it hooked up, she fired right up. After running 5 mintues, I adjusted the idle, and adjusted the mixture. she was purring good. Let it run for awhile, all seemed well. I decided to put it into drive. and let it idle for a bit. Less than 5 min. Then I gave it some gas. to about 2500 rpm for a few seconds and brought it back down (again in gear). Did it again a few minutes later and it died. Won't restart. Doing the same thing it did to me on the lake.

I begin to wonder if the "choke" has something to do with it. It the "flapper" (the metal piece which controls air flow) is wide open, when I had a friend hold the "flapper" at about 1/2 way, it wanted to start, but it didn't. I got it to run for about 15 seconds this way. No luck.

I also pulled the plugs to check to see if they are wet. and none were. However, they were black. This carbon wiped off on my finger, it looked thick. I cleaned the plugs, and tried to restart no luck.

So now I am not sure where to go from here.

To recap.
Changed Oil, rebuilt carb, new elec fuel pump 3.5pis to 7 psi, checked cap no corrosion, checked plugs not wet but black. New fuel filter. Plugs wires and Dist. Cap are new (this year). Had it running on land, got idle mixture set good, and idle screw set, running good. Then put into gear reved a little bam, stops running.

Again thanks in advance for the help. Got to get on the lake this weekend the Jumbo Perch are in...... FISH ON.
 

cheburashka

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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May 28, 2005
Messages
715
Re: Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

Are you sure it's coming off of choke when you warm it up? Make sure the choke plate is fully open when you're trying to bring the revs up. If not, it's going to run rich.
 

emtfire44

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Re: Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

I am really begining to get worried.
I put new plugs in the boat just now. when i pulled the old plugs on most were covered in black. With the exception of two on the left side (facing the engine) they had oil on them, and they were black.

I put new ones in all. Tried to start. She wouldn't go, but wanted to.

Pulled the two plugs out. And one had a very small amount of oil and black on it. The other was all black and had oil on it.

I don't know what this means. If you could please help me identify the cause I would greatly appreciate it.

The only thing i can think of is a bad piston ring? Gasket, No idea, as I am not an engine guy.
Guess no fishing tommorow.:mad:
 

captainbri

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Jun 10, 2007
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Re: Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

1.check your inline fuel filter.
2.buy new carb.
3. maybe float is sticking sometimes
4. check manifold make sure is ok
I had problems with mine 3.0 liter doing the same thing i changed the carb ,manifold fuel pump added fuel water seperator and now shes good
 

emtfire44

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Re: Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

ok....

had a friend come over and he started it right up. She ran good. We adjusted the carb. Thought maybe number 4 wasn't running pulled the plug to it, and it died. Then it would not restart.

We tested the wire to the distributor it worked. But all wires from top of dist. cap had no ignition.

It was just running, and now nothing. I am about to give up.....and trade it in on another problem.
 

Reel Poor

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5,522
Re: Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

ok....

We tested the wire to the distributor it worked. But all wires from top of dist. cap had no ignition.

Are you referring to the coil wire, the wire from the coil to the distributor cap that looks like a plug wire? If so, and it had fire arching from it while cranking the engine but the plug wires did not (coil wire now installed back in cap while checking for fire at plug wires). That is a sign of a bad rotor (shorting to ground) bad cap, or bad coil. If the spark from the coil wire will arch a 1/4 to 1/2 inch the coil is OK, check cap and suspect rotor.
 

emtfire44

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Re: Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

Update:

Okay, determined the reason the plugs won't fire. THe ignition sensor assembly in the distributor is bad. Ordered a new one. Apparently the ignition sensor assembly has a short from the red/white wires. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

so while ordering these parts from mercruiser, decided to go back to the mechanical fuel pump, and ordered all stock equipment. To ensure no additional problems.

I do need to know the following:
The ignition cut out switch assembly, is there a way to bypass this switch. The green/white wire runs to the ignition sensor assembly, and "grounds" the system for a split second while shifting into gear. This switch can also leave you dead in the water if it goes out. Mercruiser no longer offers the switch, so I am not sure what I should do in regards to it.

Well hopefully when my parts come in, it will start to run. Then I will need to time it again.
 

Reel Poor

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Re: Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

Update:
I do need to know the following:
The ignition cut out switch assembly, is there a way to bypass this switch. The green/white wire runs to the ignition sensor assembly, and "grounds" the system for a split second while shifting into gear. This switch can also leave you dead in the water if it goes out. Mercruiser no longer offers the switch, so I am not sure what I should do in regards to it.

You cannot by-pass or eliminate that switch without causing damage to your drive. It's there so the drive will come out of gear without damaging the lower drive unit. The switch is still avaliable.
 

emtfire44

Cadet
Joined
Jun 10, 2007
Messages
10
Re: Need more guidance on Mercruiser, still having problems

Okay, after a week my new parts have arrived.

Turns out the ignition assembly switch was bad.

My newest question is. I need to time the engine, but I have never personally done it before, does anyone have any suggestions.

I do have the book, which I assume will tell me the proper setting, but I am confused on the A and Btcd? Am I to set it to what the book says, or set it to how well it runs?

Thanks
 
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