Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

CStradling24

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Jun 7, 2012
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Just bought a 2001 Regal 1900 LSR. It came with a 4.3 Mercruiser. The boat and engine only have 66 hours on them. Thats good, and bad. The boat has sat for a while before I bought it. Seller claimed it was always flushed etc. When I bought it I had to replace the 2 BBL carb because it would not idle, was going to rebuild but got a new one for only $75 from a local guy. Once replaced I took the boat out and tested it. Ran fine for nearly 2 hours, then at idle the oil pressure dropped all the way down. With a little throttle it would pop right back up to 40 PSI. If I let it idle it would drop all the way down again. After about 10 seconds the engine shut off, no unusual noises and the temps were all normal. I googled a little and when I tried to restart the boat the starter made a loud screeching whine and the engine wouldn't turn. We got towed back to the dock needless to say, thanks marine patrol.

-I think the oil might have been to old and the filter clogged or something which was preventing flow at idle, yet when I gave it some power the oil was being pulled through possibly the filters bypass? I ma not thinking the oil pump because with just a little throttle the pressure came back up.

The next day I went and took out all of the plugs and tried to start it, starter made the same noise. I gave the engine a few turns using a wrench and all seemed okay. Cranked it and the starter worked fine for as long as I held the ignition. The moment I stop and try to crank it using the key again the screeching noise happens, UNLESS I turn the engine a little with the wrench. Its not very difficult to turn with the wrench, maybe 10-20LBS. It is as if the starter doesn't disengage after you stop the ignition.

-I am assuming when the engine hydro-locked and I tried to start it a few times I trashed the starter. Either way I am planning on replacing it to eliminate the problem.

When I am cranking it I dont have a lot of water that appears to be coming out of the spark plug holes but later I found out I definitely had water in the engine which leads me to the next part. I have the one piece V6 manifolds. I decided to take them off as well. Nearly all of the exhaust ports in the manifolds had some trace of rust in them. One of the middle exhaust ports had a hole in it all together. That parts easy, I will just upgrade to the 2 piece exhaust riser/manifold kit.

-Now for my BIGGEST concern. It doesn't appear as if the water was sitting in there for long but 4 out of the exhaust ports on the head side have traces of rust in them. two of them appear to just be little rust specs but the other two have a little more rust, not quite flakes though. I am going to try to attach many pictures but we will see how that works. With some rust in the engine is it even work getting the parts needed or would I be better off getting another engine. In my head rust in the engine at all seems like it would be means to call it quits? Or am I slightly over reacting. Also when looking at the oil on the dipstick it appears to be normal with no milky colors, so I am assuming the head gasket is good and the water was just from the manifolds.

I also am going to attach pictures of the Y exit tube ends where the flappers should be, there is nothing that even remotely resembles a flapper. If it is worth keeping this low hour engine I definitely have my work cut out for me. I am fairly new to engine work but I am a very quick and capable learner fortunately.

Thank you for any help possible here. I am active duty Air Force so trying to make money go as far as I can, like doing it myself to save on labor. If the rust isnt to bad then I plan to replace riser/manifolds, starter, oil, oil filter, fuel filter, impeller, outdrive oil and anything else that I can think of that requires maintenance which has been neglected.



Left Flapper.jpgLeft Head Exhaust's (1).jpgLeft Head Exhaust's (2).jpgLeft Head Exhaust's (3).jpgLeft Head Exhaust's (4).jpg
 

CStradling24

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Re: Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

More pictures...
Left Manifold (2).jpgLeft Manifold.jpgRight Flapper.jpgRight Head Exhaust's  (1).jpgRight Head Exhaust's  (2).jpg
 

CStradling24

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Re: Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

And last 2 pictures...
Right Head Exhaust's  (3).jpgRight Manifold.jpg
 

TilliamWe

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Re: Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

I cringed a little when I saw a couple of your pictures of the heads. I said out loud, "that doesn't look good." Me thinks it's time to pull those heads off and have a look at the cylinder bores. I have a bad feeling that you have rusted cylinders.

BTW, that silver metal bar you see in the top of the Y-Pipe is all that remains of your original flappers. The rubber part has buredn up and/or fallen down to the bottom of the y-pipe. If you remove the drive, you might find some pieces of them.
 

mr-steve-jones

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May 6, 2011
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Re: Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

Have you taken the starter off and checked it out? When you get it working again do a cylinder compression test first before any surgery.. That will tell you if the bores are all OK. All should be similar PSI.
If any are low, squirt some oil into bore and crank again (temporarily improves seal of piston rings to bore) and re try. If PSI goes up, its a bore issue. If PSI does not go up, its valve / seat issue.
I hydrolocked my engine last year. It was new to me then but the guys on here diagnosed it and I got away without any damage. The V6 is fairly bullet proof, IMHO. My advice, from an experience that could have been expensive, is to re fit the exhaust shutters. (These new plastic repro ones may need trimming to fit the poor shaped castings of the Y pipes.. Plenty more comments on here about that.)
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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May 19, 2004
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27,468
Re: Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

Post #2, picture #2... Batwings :eek:.... There's your problem right there...

I also looked at the picture of the exhaust shutter (what's left of it)... And that's the new style... The only reason that are gone is because the engine's been running without water, and for a while. They should look like this ....

attachment.php


So, as well as new manifolds and elbows, you're going to need new shutters.. Part# -807166A1...
 

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mjfink

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Re: Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

I just had almost exactly the same experience, although, in my case, there wasn't rust in the cylinders.

Exhaust manifolds and risers replaced. Heads sent out for a valve job. Total cost was about 3K.

If I had realized what had happened, I would have seriously considered a new crate engine:

http://www.michiganmotorz.com/alpha-complete-mercruiser-engine-package-p-1099.html

Probably not what you want to hear, but your likely in for around 1.5K on the exhaust parts, another few hundred for a valve job, and 12-24 hours of labor (if you pay someone to do it) or longer if you do it yourself (but, of course, much more rewarding and a LOT less expensive). That's assuming that there's nothing wrong with the lower end. I'd do a leak down test and make sure that's the case before I started tearing everything apart. If the lower end is damaged, your probably better going the crate route. You may not need a complete engine (although, might make sense because you need quite a few of the parts from a full engine; exhaust, starter, carb, etc). If it's just top end (like mine) and money is tight, what I did might make the most sense.
 

cjgreene1

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Re: Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

Damn fink 3 gs.... How much was a
New crater?
 

mjfink

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Messages
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Re: Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

For my particular application, it would have been about 3G for a new long block:

http://www.michiganmotorz.com/350ci-vortec-base-marine-engine-19962012-replacement-p-109.html

Now, that doesn't include the exhaust (1,500 or so) or the labor (I'm sure less than what I paid, my mechanic was here for 2 days working this problem out), call it 500 bucks to swap in a new long block.

So, my repair come to 3K and I now have an engine that's running well, but has 400 hours on it and was hydrolocked with water in the pistons (and in the oil) and then repaired.

For 5K I could have had an entirely new rotating engine (and exhaust). Had I known, I probably would have gone that way.

My mechanic is great though, I have a lot of confidence in the work he's done, but there's nothing like "the engine is new" to give you a feeling of comfort.

Damn fink 3 gs.... How much was a
New crater?
 

CStradling24

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Re: Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

Hey thank you all for the replies. This forum has been A LOT of help and all of the effort you all give is much appreciated.

I replaced the starter and that fixed its issue. Now I can crank it withou problem and all cylinders have pressure.

How much is the question. Today after work I plan to pressure check all cylinders. I have read the bulletin and have a good understanding what to do. My hope is that it looks good and since I was the first to really use the boat since about 07 several problems drowned the engine with water, exhaust manifolds, flapper etc. If the pressure is good I plan to get the new two piece risers and exhaust manifolds, flappers, a new impeller, oil change, out drive oil, and fuel filter.

I did drain all of the oil last night and it was all water at first, then a milky colored oil. Could oil have gotten in the pan from the exhaust or would the intake me more likely?
 

Struc

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Jul 27, 2011
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Re: Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

Ugh... Water in the oil. Not good. I wouldn't even bother with the compression test. Time to pull and strip down the motor. Even if it runs, it is going to be in bad shape after having that water circulating through it.

If you're handy with engines, you should be able to rebuild the one you have (if it's not cracked / damaged of course) for fairly cheap. The main internals are all swapable between automotive and marine, so parts are plentiful and cheap.

I had a cracked 4.3l and replaced it with a used truck motor, and it turned out great, and didn't cost a fortune. I had to replace my manifolds and risers, and that was the largest cost - around $500 for some HGE brand units. I had the heads rebuilt for $250, electric fuel pump setup was probably $100 all together, gasket set was $65 (FelPro), motor was $200, but I made that back by selling off automotive parts that it came with.

Here is the thread, if you want to get some ideas: http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=520824
 

CStradling24

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Re: Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

Well I put new oil in and a filter on then went ahead and did a compression check and was very surprised.

1 (190), 2 (180), 3 (180), 4 (175), 5 (190), 6 (180)

After this I'm seriously debating just putting the new manifolds and risers on and changing the oil a few times after the next few uses. What do you all think? I really am beginning to believe that the water just got into the engine on the last use. So massive internal rusting hasn't quite started.
 

Struc

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Messages
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Re: Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

Well, it's obviously up to you. You're going to need new manifolds / flappers no matter what, so you might as well buy them and give it a shot. You won't be out anything but time if it doesn't work out.

For what it's worth, my engine which was cracked in a cylinder, and through the side into the water passage ran great and had good compression as well, and didn't get any water in the oil. It probably would have ran like that for a while.

I hope it works out for you, but it still wouldn't hurt to pull it and strip it down so you can be sure of where the water came from. Worst case you throw new head gaskets (all gaskets) on it, and you have a refreshed motor.
 

mr-steve-jones

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Re: Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

Nothing much wrong with the compression by the look of those numbers..
If you say you hydrolocked the motor, it probably will have squirted water down the bores, past the rings and into the sump. How long you ran it for after that will determine any wear as water / oil emulsion doesn't lube.

Change it with cheap car motor oil and cheap filter, run it half an hour or so until it gets hot ASAP (only if oil pressure is now OK again) with the filler cap off to let out any water vapour, then drain all oil, check for water and if clean, change oil and filter again with propper stuff. Mine then showed zero signs of any water, and hasn't since.

Thats all I did and mine runs really sweet.. You have 2 chances, and it will cost you a gallon of oil to see if it works out OK.. Definitely got to be worth a try. Good luck, fingers crossed.
 

TilliamWe

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Re: Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

Yeah, if you don't mind removing the exhaust manifolds again, replace them and run it like Mr. Jones says above. If it works, you've repaired the engine for the least amount of money. If it gets more water in the oil, you'll have to pull the engine. BTW, don't spend a lot of money having heads machined. I bought a reconditioned Vortec head for a 5.7 for $179 about 5 years ago, while I paid $160 to have one reconned, and waited 3 days. Obviously I made a mistake.
 

CStradling24

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Re: Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

Well last night I ordered the new two piece exhaust manifolds, risers and elbows. I also got a fuel filter, impeller kit, grease, gear lube, and sealant. I should receive all of this before this weekend and get to install. My hope is that there is no serious internal damage and that the the heads, or internals of the engine don't have a water leak as well.

I will keep you all informed. Thank you for your help this far.
 

CStradling24

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Re: Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

I received the manifolds and risers today. The faces where they connect look really flat and smooth. They are Osco branded.

I have a few questions. I received THREE small gaskets that would go between the manifold and risers for each side. Two have holes for the water passages and one has only a hole for the exhaust and the bolts? I am assuming I only need one of the gaskets with the water passage holes?

The poorly made instructions say not to use and form of liquid gasket on the gaskets provided. Is this correct? I thought I read to use Locktite 550?

Lastly should I use some sort of sealant or thread tape on the drain bolts that go in the manifolds and risers or just put the bolts in? Directions say to avoid using materials with Teflon but doesn't advise if I should or should not use anything.

Thanks, hoping to instal tomorrow or Friday.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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May 19, 2004
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27,468
Re: Need some help please. Hydro-locked, rust in head exhaust ports, salvageable?

If you have closed cooling you would use the block off gaskets between the manifold and the elbow. If you have standard raw water cooling, make sure you use a gasket that will allow water to pass from manifold to elbow.... Don't use ANY sealer on the gaskets. They should be a grey graphite looking gasket. If they are thin green paper, toss 'em and buy genuine...

Drain bolts??? Do you mean drain plugs? If so, I put them in dry too... Don't know why they would advise against teflon tape....

Chris......
 
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