Need some legal advice from some lawyers...

waterinthefuel

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Nov 15, 2003
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As some of you may know, I worked at an airport for many years (where I got the user name I use on this website from) in fuel management, airplane movement, etc.

This is my concern. I'm now going to aviation mechanics school. If I work on someone's plane and it crashes, can they automatically come back and sue me? I don't want to work for 30 years just to lose everything to some sue happy azzhole whos plane went down.

Also, at my past job, I moved lots of very expensive airplanes around. If I had damaged one, could the owner of the plane have sued me for the repairs had my employer not picked up the bill for me?

How do both of these situations work legally? Any help is greatly appreciated.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Need some legal advice from some lawyers...

The answer is no in both instances.....
That is what insurance is for, (either yours or your employers).....
However, if you willfilly damage or sabotage something, it is a whole different ball game.....
You would be criminally liable & insurance won't cover it....;)
 

tashasdaddy

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Re: Need some legal advice from some lawyers...

you also get into the negligence factor.
 

bjcsc

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Re: Need some legal advice from some lawyers...

If I work on someone's plane and it crashes, can they automatically come back and sue me?

I guess that would depend on the altitude they dropped from :)

The short answer to both of your questions is yes, you can be sued and would most likely at least be named in both cases (if you are working for yourself in the first example - you didn't say). Remember, you can be sued for anything - the real question is how likely are you to lose. You may think that is splitting hairs but you can spend 10s of thousands of dollars defending yourself even if you're not really liable. But like Haut said, that's why you have liability insurance. If you are working for someone else as an employee (not as a contractor) the liability would rest on them and even if you were named the insurance company's attorneys would represent you. If you intend on working as a mechanic for yourself, you'll have to carry good liability insurance. Surely there is some type of national organization that specializes in exactly what you'll need. Such is life...
 

tashasdaddy

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Re: Need some legal advice from some lawyers...

as a building contractor i started with 1 million in insurance, after going good it went to 10 million. was expensive, and never needed it, except for a couple of injuries, i did not fight. but, i sure slept better.
 
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Re: Need some legal advice from some lawyers...

I know that with school buses that complete record of all repair, inspections and preventative maintainace has to be SIGN OFF ON AND DATED to verify any mechanic liability in case of a wreck. Im sure the NAA requires something simular. You have to procress to being alowed to do certain repairs.Get some people killed and you can go to jail.
 

Phantom_II

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Re: Need some legal advice from some lawyers...

Once you receive your FAA A&P license (either or both) you are personally liable for any and all work performed, or signed off by you using that license. Insurance will cover you for any minor claims, but negligence by a licensed aircraft technician is a criminal offense.

The common practice for lawyers in any suit is to throw as many things in as many directions as possible in order to see what sticks. Your only real protection is extremely thorough documentation of all work you've performed and especially what parts and materials you used as well as where you got them.

Mistakes may be inevitable but they are also unforgivable.

A minor error in judgment by an automotive or marine technician will usually leave somebody stranded somewhere. An error by an aircraft technician is frequently fatal, both to the occupants of the aircraft and to any hapless individuals who happen to be too close when it hits.
A forgotten tool, a lost washer, or even an overlooked sliver of metal shaving (F.O.D.) can lead a multi-million dollar airliner to a smoking crater.

By the way, I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, But I have been an aircraft technician for 34 years. Don't let it scare you.
It's good work but it DOES require painstaking attention to details.

Aircraft, I know... Marine engine plumbing baffles me.
 
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Re: Need some legal advice from some lawyers...

Once I adjusted the air brakes on a bus and 2 hours later it hit another bus and the driver started screaming "no brakes " Several minor injuries.Several other mechanics asked me if I was sure I didnt make a mistake. My answer was "there is only one way to adjust them and thats the way I do it, no sweat" After several accidents investigators tested and tested and tested for proper brake adjustment THEY FIRED THE DRIVER FOR LYING.......Honest I wasnt worried for a second.
 

puddle jumper

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Re: Need some legal advice from some lawyers...

Working in the auto industry i have a saying its not when things go wrong but how bad becouse it will happen. So make shure you butt is covered.
 

SS MAYFLOAT

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May 17, 2001
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Re: Need some legal advice from some lawyers...

Mostly it all boils down to having insurance to cover your butt. My wife works in an ER at the hospital. She has to have insurance. Even the grills in the resturants that I work on I have to sign off on them that they are safe and meet health standards. In the tech school by the manufacture, they trained us that if someone gets shocked or injured that we as the sevice techs can be liable.

What gets me is that last year in China, 100,000 people were killed on the job. I just wonder how many if any lawsuits are in the process over those incidents?

Just about any job that requires people to be involved in is a liability issue. I knew a guy that had a tire business for over 30 years. One employee didn't torque the wheel down properly. The wheel came off, the Jeep flipped killing the driver. His business was done and gone afterwards because he didn't have the proper insurance. Sad thing is that nothing happened to the guy that installed the wheel. Figure that one out?
 

mainexile

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Re: Need some legal advice from some lawyers...

Chances are that if that scenario should occur, the owner/operator won't be coming back at all - let alone to sue you. ;) Sorry, I couldn't resist.:redface:
 

jay_merrill

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Re: Need some legal advice from some lawyers...

First, if you want real legal advice from an attorney, this is not the place to get it. That said, I'll offer my 59 cents (inflation) as a person who has spent many years in business and in life.

The reality of the world that we live in is that people sue each other over anything. It almost doesn't matter what you do or don't do, and you have to decide whether you are going to live your life in fear of this fact, or live it to your best potential.

Liability in the world of aviation is a mixed bag - on one hand, everything about it is high dollar but, on the other hand, its a very regulated and procedurally driven business. If you do become an A&P, you can bet that the FBO and/or Repair Station that you work for is going to have a lot of insurance. You can also expect to work in strict accordance with procedures and FAA regulations. Just about everything you do will be inspected by someone else and, in time, you will inspect the work of others.

As someone else mentioned, to do this sort of work, you need to be extremely detail oriented. If you choose to view me as an advisor on this (and, BTW, I have been an aircraft mechanic), the advice that I would give you, is to consider this aspect of a career as an A&P with greater concern than the liability issue. Chances are, if you do your work with meticulous detail, and in accordance with all instructions and regulations pertaining to what you are doing, you won't get sued. Simply put, if you do it by the book every time, and keep absolute track of your tools and materials, so that you don't accidentally leave anything in the aircraft, it becomes pretty hard to successfully sue you.

Add to this, the fact that those who sue will go after the money. As an individual mechanic, you won't have anything of great interest to those who sue. Compared to the money available via the insurance policies of the FBO, the airframe manufacturer, the manufacturers of all of the components in the aircraft, etc., you aren't going to be a significant source of potential money, and no one is likely to invest much in trying to get what you do have.

While I was in civilian aviation for many years, my experience as a mechanic was in the military so I will defer to others on advice about personal insurance for mechs. I think that what I would do if I were considering being an A&P as a career choice, is to do some homework. Talk to as many A&Ps as you can. Ask them if they have personal insurance policies for "malpractice." I would also talk to the bosses at the FBOs to get their opinions, and I would find a few insurance brokers that handle aviation insurance, to see if getting insured is the norm. They will also be able to tell you what it costs, if available.
 

SgtMaj

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Re: Need some legal advice from some lawyers...

Listen to bjcsc... it's absolutely correct.

Also, depending upon the types of aircraft you'll be working about, you may need to up your liability insurance considerably. Even a 10 mil policy wouldn't even begin to cover a newer GS4 with a luxury package. Of course, if you're just working on 2 and 4 seater cessnas, even a 1 mil policy is probably more than you'll need. Of course, your prices for working on the more expensive aircraft could also reflect the added insurance expenses without being balked at.
 

waterinthefuel

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Re: Need some legal advice from some lawyers...

Fantastic replies, thank you so much all. Now I know what to expect and will prepare accordingly.
 
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