Negotiating for a boat....

[NMShooter]

I'm boat shopping. As part of this process, I will be enlisting the aid of a shop to do a professional survey. My target boat is 18' to 20' runabout, I/O open bow for fish and ski activities. Probably 4.3L to 5.0L. I'm guessing in the $7500 to $10k range.

I posted another thread on a checklist to narrow the field prior to picking a boat to take to a shop for an inspection.

Assuming that I have a price that is agreed to, my plans are to ask the owner what his confidence level is that the boat is in good shape. We will have identified any shortcomings that are known at this point and factored this into the purchase price. I'm assuming at this point they will tell me they have a good confidence in the integrity of the boat.

I'd then like to propose the following : I provide earnest money, and he takes the boat to a mutually agreed upon shop for inspection. Any repairs found to be required, we effectively split the cost of the repair by adjusting the sales price of the boat.

If the repairs exceed $1000, then either of us can back out of the deal, I get my earnest money back, and the seller is responsible for the checkout cost.

Is this fair, or am I asking too much? I think this places the burden of honesty on the existing owner, and he either knows the condition of his boat or he does not. If he does not know the condition, or if he is dishonest, I don't feel that I should be responsible for the cost of the survey.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks!

-f-

 

[The Rooster]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

If he's honest, has nothing to hide, and has any integrity at all, he shouldn't have a problem w/ your proposal. But, I'd still sea trial the boat personally before taking it to a mechanic. You might not care for your "seat of the pants" impression. Good luck !!!

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

I'd then like to propose the following : I provide earnest money, and he takes the boat to a mutually agreed upon shop for inspection. Any repairs found to be required, we effectively split the cost of the repair by adjusting the sales price of the boat.

If the repairs exceed $1000, then either of us can back out of the deal, I get my earnest money back, and the seller is responsible for the checkout cost.

Good luck with that... As a seller, I'd have to be really hard up to agree to this. This is a private party, used vehicle transaction. The term 'as-is' applies! Yes, there might be things wrong, but that is what price negotiation is for. As a seller, I would never get involved with repairs of any sort, its not going to end well.

Also, as a seller, I generally don't take earnest money, ESPECIALLY if there is any back out clause of any sort for a buyer. The first person to show up with the agree upon amount cash gets a boat. The one exception is for larger ticket items, I'll take a deposit AFTER the guy agrees to buy it, with the deposit serving to hold the item long enough for them to get to the bank on the next business day. There is no back out clause, they have agreed to buy it already.

The boat doesn't leave my possession before there is cash in hand, ever. I will take it to a mechanic of your choice at my convenience if you want them to look at it, but it isn't going to be left out of my sight. (been burnt on it before, you don't know what happens in between point A and point B. Back to no cash = no boat.)

I might sound a little hard headed, but I've sold LOTS of things. I've also dealt with some of the shadiest buyers around the way it seems. Lots of buyers think they can get a weekend 'test drive' of a boat, with absolutely no intention to buy. I've unloaded boats for test drives and had not only the entire family show up ready for a full day of boating, but all their friends also, coolers in hand. (back to the boat never leaves my possession, I am with on all test drives, no exception. My name is on the title and insurance, I'm responsible for it.)

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Based on your plan, it seems that you may not have a lot of experience in buying boats.

Generally, you do not take a boat to a shop for a survey. Marine surveyors are typically independent of dealers, shops, etc. They come to the boat and perform the survey. It is a good idea to combine the sea trial with the survey. Some hauling of the boat out of the water is usually necessary, so the surveyor can check the hull, etc. Some surveyors can do the mechanical inspections and testing of the engine, others not. So, you may have to have a marine mechanic do the engine testing, etc.

You make an assumption that the seller knows everything about their boat . . . often they do not. So issues discovered during the survey may have nothing to do with honesty.

Usually, there is a 10% deposit put down when the offer is accepted. Then the inspections are contingencies. If you do not accept the boat, then the deposit is fully refunded.

As a seller, I would not pre-agree to anything. It is a matter of you accepting the boat or not. If you do not accept the boat, then the seller could decide to do things that would cause you to accept the boat. They could either adjust the price, or agree to fix things, or a bit of both.

So, I do not think you will have a good process as you have described it.

 

[jestor68]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Yes, you are asking too much.

Any used boat, car, truck, airplane; whatever, is bought "as is, where is". If you want the boat inspected/surveyed, bring the inspector with you, at your expense. The boat leaves my driveway when someone has paid for it.

I wouldn't give a lake adventure without a none refundable deposit. I can demonstrate all the functions right there with muffs on the drive, and show that everything works.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

What tpenfield said. Not only would I not obligate the seller to split the cost of repairs, I wouldn't want to obligate myself that way, either. I want to be able to walk away from the deal if I decide this isn't 'the one.'

I always negotiate the price up front 'contingent upon the results of a survey and sea trial'. If no problems are found, then I buy the boat, which is what I wanted to happen anyway. If problems ARE found, the door is open ANYWAY to renegotiate the price or negotiate repairs if I really want the boat after the survey reveals issues. If the owner doesn't want to play ball, I can just go home. There are plenty of used boats around.

In the case of a boat I bought from a broker, I paid for the survey. The 10% earnest money was fully refundable if I decided not to buy.

In the case of my current boat, purchased through a private party, I also paid for the survey and put the same percentage of money up front, but had to give him the option of keeping $100. of it in the event that I backed out. It wasn't unreasonable.

I want to completely 'own' the survey and the surveyor. I'd rather pay for that myself. And, I never fall in love with a boat until after I own it- never before a survey and sea trial.

My .02

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Quite frankly, you would annoy me to the point that I would say "forget it: Buy someone else's boat."

 

[Zerbel04]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

In your initial inquiry ask some general questions such as details of boat condition, maintenance history etc. If the boat makes the cut after these questions go check it out in person and take your detailed checklist with you then. You will get a lot more useful information in person anyway and should be able to tell if the seller is reasonably trustworthy.

This summer when I was looking for a boat, it was a huge sellers market for good used boats. Good boats would be sold right out of the driveway within a couple days of being posted. No test drive, no survey. It took 6 weeks for the market to slow down to the point where I could buy a boat under my own terms.

I guess my point is it depends how strong the market is for used boats in your area. If it's anything like it was in my area this summer and you were to send your exhaustive checklist to a seller I would bet most of them would just simply ignore you.

 

[scott8058]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

I agree that sounds like a huge hassle and i would probably walk away from the deal too, ill gladly fire it up cold on muffs and probably go one step further than most and put it in the water for a ride. In my opinion what your asking is to much for buying from craigslist or out of classifieds.

 

[r.j.dawg]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Quite frankly, you would annoy me to the point that I would say "forget it: Buy someone else's boat."

I'm with Frank. I would have no problem with you doing a survey, but if the boat is in the water, you would be responsible for the cost of pulling it out as well as the cost of the surveyor. Any problems found, sure we can negotiate. But don't expect the seller to pony up for your costs to inspect the boat. Used boats are sold as is where is.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Sounds to me as though you are more looking to buy a house and not a used pcs of equipment.

If I had to do that to sell then I think I would be forced to raise the original asking price.

 

[MJG24]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

What are your thoughts?

You are going to be looking for a boat for a long while...

 

[NMShooter]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Nope... not a lot of experience buying boats. Some though. 34 years of on/off shopping and 5 small, cheaper boats. Lots of other vehicles.

This is the first time that I have lived somewhere that a wet trial is not easy to come by.

Seems like there are more "sellers" replies here than "buyers". Sounds as though I need to adjust my plan to include a more thorough checkout before taking it to a shop. Unfortunately, we are two or more hours from water that you can generate a wake on.

Having a boat professionally checked out costs more than having a car checked out. At least here by me.

If you tell me your boat/car/plane is use-ready / great condition, then I expect expect you to be ready to put your money where your mouth is. Because if the vehicle is not in great condition, and in fact has a costly issue, you are either ignorant or dishonest. Either way, that's not my problem. Minor issues, I'll cover. But if the repairs exceed 15% of the cost of the boat, you're probably covering something up, or you haven't done your maintenance. And you are trying to pass it off to someone else.

It boils down to how bad you want to sell your boat vs. how bad I want to buy it. Under no circumstances do I want to buy a boat if the seller is an jerk, thief or idiot.

As a seller I would agree to those initial terms. But I'm the sort of person who fixes up my stuff and points out problems to potential buyers before I sell. I am in favor of a fair deal for buyer and seller no matter the side of the contract I am on.

This thread has been a good eye opener for me.

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

You are going to be looking for a boat for a long while...

And hearing a lot of laughing

 

[jkust]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Let us know how the negotiations go. This may be a fun thread.

 

[MJG24]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

If you tell me your boat/car/plane is use-ready / great condition, then I expect expect you to be ready to put your money where your mouth is. Because if the vehicle is not in great condition, and in fact has a costly issue, you are either ignorant or dishonest. Either way, that's not my problem. Minor issues, I'll cover. But if the repairs exceed 15% of the cost of the boat, you're probably covering something up, or you haven't done your maintenance. And you are trying to pass it off to someone else.

Well, in boating moreso than about any other operation of "vehicles", problems can come up at anytime even for the very best maintaned boats. If/When you have a problem with an older $9,000 boat, it isn't always because of the previous owners ignorance and/or dishonesty.

It boils down to how bad you want to sell your boat vs. how bad I want to buy it. Under no circumstances do I want to buy a boat if the seller is an jerk, thief or idiot.

As a seller I would agree to those initial terms. But I'm the sort of person who fixes up my stuff and points out problems to potential buyers before I sell. I am in favor of a fair deal for buyer and seller no matter the side of the contract I am on.

It does boil down to how bad a seller wants to sell a boat. I think you're going to have a very hard time finding that desperate of a seller. If someone doesn't agree to your terms, that doesn't make them a jerk, thief, or idiot.

No one here is against a "fair" deal... this is a difference in opinion of what is "fair".

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

...Having a boat professionally checked out costs more than having a car checked out. At least here by me...

Have you actually put a number to this?

A 18-20ft boat survey may cost in the neighborhood of $300 Plus travel expenses.
Whether the seller transports the boat to the surveyor or the survey come to the boat;
You may be writing checks for $500 to find the condition of a boat that you do not even buy in the end.

A $500 survey on an inexpensive $7500 Open Bow boat is not a common procedure.
Your actual expenses will vary.

 

[matt167]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Quite frankly, you would annoy me to the point that I would say "forget it: Buy someone else's boat."

I did exactly this with a truck I had. Some lady called and was very interested. She wanted to get it inspected by her mechanic 40+ miles away. I agreed to drive it to her mechanics shop because of her interest. She told me, no that SHE was to take it to the mechanics shop if she were to consider buying it.. Needless to say, she didn't get the truck.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

You know what is going to happen . . .

. . . we are going to start seeing new threads posted from people trying to sell their boat and the buyer wants them to pay for the inspections, insists that they split the costs of whatever is found to be wrong, and calls then a dishonest idiot, if they don't want to play along . . .

:facepalm: :facepalm:

 

[matt167]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

A boat in that size/ price range. Sea trial would be near mandatory or at least a run on muffs. Surveyor would be kinda overkill for a boat in that price range. Not much boat to check over, and as long as you know where to look, you can successfully complete an inspection yourself.

Also buying a used boat/vehicle is normally an as-is sale, which means as-is where is. Even people who get a surveyor, who then finds something wrong and then ask the owner to fix and the owner does, that is optional if they want to or not. Spending $1k to make $19k makes sense to a buyer, but not spending $500 ( open figure ) to make $8k