Negotiating for a boat....

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Buying used boat or cars what a topic and as many opinion's as poster's. Soo here we go now that you have found a boat find a surveyor not a mech but one that is lisc and bonded. Make your best deal PENDING a survey at your expense..300 is small change for certainty or resonable certainty. If the seller does not like that run..run fast.

Not to insult anyone but we as people have subjective opinion's as to what is acceptable and what is not. Getting a non biased opinion or evaluation will allow to proceed based on your opinion....

 

[81 Checkmate]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Come on Dude - You ain't buying a yhat!

Used means used........ You have to use your best judgement on the seller and condition of the boat! There ain't no way i would drag my boat all over the country only to have a mechanic tell me i have to spend a $1000 to sell it to you.

As far as a sea trial.....it dont sound like it's gona happen for you..... so you are going to have to negotiate in a contract for the sea trial in the spring.

I am not a dishonest person and i am gona tell the buyer what i know about the boat... Its a used boat and what it is...is what it is................So when it leaves my driveway it's theirs...Done Deal!

Good Luck!

 

[NMShooter]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Wow... lots of very defensive posturing here. What's up with that? My desire to protect my interests does not come at an unreasonable compromise for the seller.

Asking a seller to 50/50 split the costs of a necessary repair is not unreasonable. I'm not asking for a warrantee. I'm not asking to take the boat off on my own. I'm not asking for the seller to pay all the costs of repairs.

I'm asking for a reasonable seller.

Here is a perfect example. I looked at a boat over the weekend. Seller told me that it was in great shape and ready to go. I looked it over, and found that the exhaust bellows were pretty badly cracked. I pointed it out to him, and he appeared to be completely surprised and asked me how much that would cost to fix. He said that he had recently replaced the shift bellows.

I called two shops here in town, and one remembered this boat. I asked them why they would replace the shift bellows, and not recommend to repair the exhaust bellows. They said that they did, and that the owner said that he was about to sell the boat and didn't want to spend the extra money.

So... let's say that I didn't spot that cracked bellows. The owner knew about it, but said the boat was in great condition (which he did). I'm out $400 because the owner lied to me, and then he doesn't want to split the cost of repair? Why is that fair?

OK... I can see us splitting the cost of the checkout if: Costs exceed $1000 AND one of us does not want to pay half of the repair. That makes the seller put his money where his mouth is, and also further protects him in the transaction.

Unfortunately, I am going to go forward as though every seller is intent on ripping me off. If any seller is going to get their panties in a wad and be rude because I try to politely negotiate to fair terms and conditions for both of us (I'm open to reasonable counter-terms), they can sell to a rube instead. I'm not buying anything completely on someone else's terms. PT Barnum had something to say about that.

Lots of used boats available.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

NM it boils down to perception what is acceptable and what is not. I could spend hours on this subject i sell cars for a very reputable dealer the guy is so hard line on quality its painful actually wasteful....We throw tires away with less than 6/32 tread..no oil leaks....brake pad's are miced.....compression test are done and doucmented..its a painful process and its not subjective replace the part or wholesale the car.

Guess what they still fail and people get angry..The federal government has gotten invovled in used cars...That AS IS sticker was meant to clean the lines up..and they still are blured. So where is the line it is at the point of sale from there your on your own and the reason for a survey...New boats do have warranty's used do not...Sounds a bit harsh but it keeps the line's clear and away from subjective opinion's and boy do they vary...

 

[Maclin]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

NM, you just had the exact experience everyone is describing. Did that boat seller agree to anything? I would bet not. All he has to do is wait and some rube will buy it as you mentioned, just now he has one more thing he can fib and act surprised about if it comes up again.

No one is saying to not do the research, most of the posts are about your expectations of the boat selling public's motives and how that affects an individual's integrity and tolerance.

 

[81 Checkmate]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

NM - You desribed a perfict example of a used item seller. If you realy like the boat and know the seller is not telling you everything....Get your inspection done then low ball him..... If he dont bite,then walk away and let him ponder on it...If he wants to sell it bad enough he will. If he dont, than you are proly better off!

BtW - an exhaust bellows ripped or missing will not sink the boat, it directs the exhaust to prop for noise.... thats it!

I bought my boat used also, Looked at many......and you could tell who the good and bad were (Sellers)....I made my sale just on muffs becouse of the enviroment ( House,Yard,Ect) and condition of the boat. But low and behold i had to put a new ignition system in a year later ($400) Bucks. Things break and you risk when you buy used!

If i knew i was selling i woulndn't have fixed either $400 bucks - No way......But i would atleast tell ya!

 

[gtochris]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Quite frankly, you would annoy me to the point that I would say "forget it: Buy someone else's boat."

I agree.

For that price, your just looking for something solid, I'm sure my boat would raise some minor flags from blistering to a scraped skag, however, at 10-15 yo what do you expect?

I keep my stuff in top condition for what it is- so no fixes would be entertained, Besides, most people who are selling something defective it is up to you to find that as they arent going to divulge, that is why they are likely selling it!

 

[captain zac]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

NOT TRUE

I have sold hundreds of aircraft and 99% of the time we do a pre-buy (on boats you would call it a survey)
When I make an offer on an aircraft the offer is contingent on it being in working order (Airworthy)
This is the same way I bought my boat I made the seller an offer based on the boat in good working order he was good
with the $ amount so I took it to a survey. In the survey they found that the Gimbal bearing needed replaced.
at that point the boat was not water worthy so I said if you discount the boat by the cost of the repair I would close on the deal.
If he had not of discounted then I would have to move on.
So I would suggest that you make an offer in a clear contract explaining what you expect
We call it a good up front contract so that both parties have a clear understanding of what too expect.

Harry

 

[fotto]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

I bought my first boat (2007 FW Horizon 180) just last year and must have gotten lucky with a very "reasonable seller". I met with the seller and "inspected" the hull, fit, finish, wear, etc. as best as I could, as well as having him run the engine on muffs, checking shift operation (basic stuff). Finding no obvious issues, I made an offer on the boat contingent on having it checked out by a certified Mercruiser mechanic near us (actually closer to me), with the sale contingent on it checking out mechanically. Since he didn't move off his asking price by any appreciable amount, I asked him to split the inspection cost ($170 est) with me and he agreed. Anything that was found to be an issue via the tech's inspection would be on the table for negotiation.

He towed the boat to the dealer and left it for a couple days. He got the call that all was good, I stopped by to verify, and we had a sale. I took ownership right off the dealer's lot where we had it inspected.

Just throwing this out as one example. You don't get if you don't ask (seller can always say no) and you can always walk away if they're totally unreasonable. If he wouldn't have consented to a simple inspection (which I would have paid 100% of if pressed) to seal the deal, then I would have just walked in fear he was hiding something as I'm not astute enough about engine and outdrive potential issues.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Wow... lots of very defensive posturing here. What's up with that? My desire to protect my interests does not come at an unreasonable compromise for the seller.

Asking a seller to 50/50 split the costs of a necessary repair is not unreasonable. I'm not asking for a warrantee. I'm not asking to take the boat off on my own. I'm not asking for the seller to pay all the costs of repairs.

I would NEVER entertain anything like this if a seller proposed it, EVER. I have no problem with you paying for an inspection or a repair estimate, but I am absolutely not entering into any agreement to repair a boat with another party. Boat repairs aren't like car repairs. Its entirely possible to have a boat in the shop for most of the season, if you try and get it in during the peak.

What I would do is take your mechanics's claim, and if I didn't know about it already, I might knock some off the price. That is how it typically goes for a used vehicle sale. You hand me cash, I hand you a boat. What you do after that point is up to you, if you take it to the mechanic and have it repaired, I couldn't care less. But the important part is that I'm not sitting on a boat for half a season while a mechanic gets around to looking it it. It was your choice to have it repaired, you get to deal with the mechanic.

As you can see from the previous posts, I'm not alone. In fact, the vast majority of sellers would probably not enter into an agreement like that. They would either deal on conventional used/private party/as-is sale terms, or show you the door. The only people that are going to agree to it are hard up and needing to sell the boat ASAP. And even then, they want the money soon, so they are going to discount the boat at a deeper level. The last thing they want is to have it tied up in repair.

Long story short, you probably won't find anyone willing to sell to you.

 

[emilsr]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

NM, go back and read post #4. That's the generally accepted procedure. Stick with that and there should be no problems.

As for paying $300 for a survey on a $7,500 boat, not only will you be buying "piece of mind" (but not a guarantee the boat won't break next week), but many surveyors will give you some very good advice on what they are looking for, why, and what you can do to ensure you maintain your boat properly. This will apply to boats in general, not just this one, so it's money well spent on your boating education even if it appears "excessive" to some.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Captain Zac, If boats had to pass the equivalent of the FAA 100 hour or whatever inspections then selling a boat would be a different process than it is now.

 

[MJG24]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Captain Zac, If boats had to pass the equivalent of the FAA 100 hour or whatever inspections then selling a boat would be a different process than it is now.

Yeah, I can see an aircraft being a little different than a 10+ year old 18 foot boat...

 

[NMShooter]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Well that is YOUR view, as you can see from the posts its not widely shared. But hey, if you can find a seller desperate enough to go along with it, more power to ya.

I don't know... some of the folks above seem to think it is reasonable. As part of my job, I work a lot with contracts and am used to haggling over modifying terms and conditions. I'm also very comfortable negotiating. I find that if I am polite, it always pays to give the seller an opportunity to say no. I bet I save a lot of money compared to most people.

I'm trying to figure out a way to not get stuck with a $400 checkout fee for a lemon when the seller misrepresents something. I also want to respect the seller's rights to not have to deal with folks who are tire kickers and really have no interest in buying. For instance, since test rides here are a pain, I'm going to be dang sure that I am ready to buy given a clean checkout before I ask for a ride. Actually, I'd do that even if I lived in an area where the test ride was easy to get to. I have a simple policy... don't waste my time and I won't waste yours.

I don't low-ball, and I won't deal with those who do. I prefer to determine a fair price range and work with that. If my fair price range overlaps with the seller's fair price range, We'll strike a deal. If not, that is okay too. The best sort of deal is when both parties are satisfied. Good written agreements early on help to ensure that condition.

 

[NMShooter]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

BTW... thank you for the opinions.

 

[emilsr]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

I'm trying to figure out a way to not get stuck with a $400 checkout fee for a lemon when the seller misrepresents something.

Unless you're capable of giving the boat a rudimentary survey on your own, you're stuck with paying a professional.

Like someone mentioned early in the thread, they may not be misrepresenting the boat, they just may not know what problems it has. Owning a boat doesn't make you a boater, and even if you are an experienced boater that doesn't mean you're a competent surveyor.

At the end of the day, $300 (or $400) will be pennies in terms of boat ownership costs. I wouldn't worry about that. Besides, if it saves you from buying a boat with a rotted transom you've saved thousands in repairs.

 

[captain zac]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Not saying that it has to pass the same evaluations as an aircraft but

When you make an offer on a boat you expect it to be water worthy (unless it is disclosed before hand)
If i am buying a boat and make an acceptable offer and find out that it needs 2k worth of work after the fact then one of two things
have to happen
the seller will make the repair (or discount)
Or I walk from the deal
The whole point is that the seller and the buyer has to have a clear understanding of what they expect up front

Harry

 

[MJG24]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Not saying that it has to pass the same evaluations as an aircraft but

When you make an offer on a boat you expect it to be water worthy (unless it is disclosed before hand)
If i am buying a boat and make an acceptable offer and find out that it needs 2k worth of work after the fact then one of two things
have to happen
the seller will make the repair (or discount)
Or I walk from the deal
The whole point is that the seller and the buyer has to have a clear understanding of what they expect up front

Harry

Yes, you want both sides to clearly understand expectations and terms. But, what is actually expected in a potential sale, is very different for people.

I would bet that 99% of all used boat sales of $7,500 go through without a 'contract' or any written agreement outside of a BOS.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

Just a couple of weeks ago I was looking at a Lund that was a project boat and it was priced and advertised as such. After emailing back and forth and getting many pictures I was ready and willing to pay the asking price. Until an in person conversation reveiled that the boat had 8 bottom rivets replaced with pop rivits. I walked away from that one.

I find it best to not be in a hurry and ask a lot of questions. I the buyer have just as much right to walk away as the seller does. It is also up to me as the buyer to be perpaired before hand and know which questions to ask. If they cannot be answered then or the answers are vague then I move on. That simple! Be it a car a boat or a wheelbarrow there is always a market full to be offered of the exact same model.

 

[captain zac]

Re: Negotiating for a boat....

I would expect that all transactions have a contract

Might not be written but at least verbal
If you are going to make a verbal offer why not tell the seller what you expect for the money you are offering

If one makes an offer verbal that is a contract what consummates a contract is earnest money