New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

[Pugetsound]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

Fishing should pick up a bit when the water warms up. So much late run off the temps must be way down. If the problem is a bearing hope its a standard size that Timkin may make or another mfg. Should be a bearing number on them wherever they are located. Big mystery to me. but can't be to complicated.

 

[heyyou325]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

I think I dodged a bullet. I got off a couple hours early to see what was wrong. After I finally got the other side of the ujoint off, the yoke pulled right out. I heard something hit the bopttom when it did tho. It was the nut holding it on to the shaft. It came unscrewed somehow. No cotter pin, no locking nut, nothing to keep it locked on. I'll have to do something about that. The yoke looks good. It's the first pick. Nothing wrong with the nut, except no locking mechanism. Seal leaks a little grease, but not bad. Grease gun grease. Bearing looks real good. The next pic is of them. And the inner bearing looks good. Third pic. Now you've all seen some inside a jet drive. As much as I have anyway. The shaft in the jet drive turned real easy and didn't have excessive slop in. I tried to drill a hole for a cotter pin, and the shaft turned 8 out of 8 times. I no longer have drill bits under 1/8". I put it back together, and cinched it down good and tight, and nothing turned. Took it back apart and it turned good again. Think I over tightened it a the bearings wouldn't turn. Had to make a trip to town (traffic was terrible, 3 hrs) for some bigger gasket material. Hope that does it. I'll try in the morning.

 

[GLG fishing]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

Could you use locktite (sp) on the threads?
I find that stuff works good.
GLG

 

[heyyou325]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

I'm using threadlock which is the same thing, different brand name. Works the same, but I like the applicator better, maybe a tiny bit cheaper, not sure. put it back together twice more, the last time piece by piece. Everything works good now, except the driveline is about 1/4" too long, puts u joints in a heck of a bind. At I may have got 1/8" with heavier gaskets. Oh well abck to the drawing board. It aint no easier to get at now than before. This pic is from about chest height you can see I need to be a contortionist. The jet drive turns easy enough I needed to get help to hold the impellers just to start the nut on the shaft, and for the whole way tightening. I could only get about 2/3 of the nut on the shaft. May be time to take a break and do something else for awhile. Thanks for the idea tho, there all appreciated, especially when I'm working on something totally new.

 

[Pugetsound]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

On the road to survival again. Lucky duck I'd say .

 

[heyyou325]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

I'm not so sure. Drive line (2 yokes and a double u joint is now too long to fit. Puts the ujoint in a heck of a bind. Not sure what to do other than move the engine. Everything fit before, and was straight, something has to have changed. I just have to figure out what. Thinking about taking a little time off to do other things.

 

[Pugetsound]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

Thats the best thing to do sometime. Give it a rest and you will most likley find the problem right away in a day or two. My Son and his Son and a few of his school friends are at the lake and said normal level Milky and COLD. . Thought Ill just stay here get ready for the Humpy Season with the NEW ha-ha boat and let them do any heavy work if needed. Wiseness comes with age. as well as seniality (SP). Something moved but thats a lot of force to deal with if things go wrong. Is there an possibility the yokes could have been bent or the u-joints??. Time will tell I sure woulden't move the engine to quick unless all else fails. Good Luck

 

[heyyou325]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

I took everything apart, and got it all back together, and nothing lined up yet. So I broke down and moved the engine a little, I'm not real satisfied with the results yet, but probably thru for the weekend. I moved the engine about 3/4 Inch to the left of center, both front and back, and raised the back of the engine almost an inch. It might be a little bit too high now. but what worries me is the distance to the transom. The left corner was 1/4 inch further forward from the right, now it is 1 1/4" further forward. The hole was moved back about 1/2 inch. And the hole on the right rear corner was moved ahead about 1/4 inch. I have only tightened one bolt to lock things down for my measurements so far. I think I need to tweak things a bit more, but figure I won't have time this weekend, so I'd reassess what I need to do and try to get some feedback from others on it. The first 2 pics are from the top left, using the started as a straight edge, with the ujoint turned 90 deg. And the third is from ujoint level.

 

[yooperangler]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

It sure looks better in those pics Idk anything about jet drives but seems to me the alignment of the shaft would be the primary concern not the measurements from transom. It seems possible that the pump itself isn't (and maybe never was) 100% square with transom so using that as a reference may not be best. Is there a way you can run a straight edge along the back of the motor and measure to each side of that pump flange where it bolts down ? I also think the engine should be far enough forward to leave a little free play in that cv joint (double u joints) if they are bound up tight with any pressure front to back hard for to balance out at velocity. Not sure on boats but in most applications there is always a bit of front to back wiggle on shafts like that.Idk if either of those yokes splines in but if they do having a bit of spline out to allow some movement seems to be the norm. Also in a lot of applications drive shafts etc... these joints are balanced and should be put back together the same way they came apart. Good idea to take a break from it and great progress hoping some of this helps or someone has the answer good luck.

 

[heyyou325]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

I haven't taken the yoke off the engine, but on the pump it has a keyway. What I'm worried about in the driveline is either too much pulling or pushing on the bearings in the pump. There are 2, one gets pushed away from the engine, and one gets pulled towards it. If I put too much preassure either way, one of the bearings is apt to go, And the pump has been out of production for 20 yrs. So the bearings might not be real easy to get. This jet drive is real simple, a shaft going from the driveline thru a seal and 2 bearings, past a water pick up area, and 3 impellers to pull the water up. I'm not sure about a bearing on the rear, but that's basically it. The first pic shows engine, driveline, and start of the pump drive where the 2 bearings are. Then a pic thru the inspection hole looking at the inside back of where the bearings are, and down the water pickup. Then looking back at the first impeller. And the last one is from the back looking forward at the shaft and impellers. I'm learning as I go with this thing. And I can stick a camera where I can't see to learn more.

 

[yooperangler]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

Only thing I notice here is in the last pic leading edge of top impeller blade looks closer to housing than the others maybe just the angle of pic also seems to be a bit of a groove there and not at bottom. Looked at your other pics again and definitely looks like something moved in those crooked u joint pics looks to me like either motor or pump had to move to get that far off unless first pic was before you replaced motor supports and didn't notice alignment after ? Looking back at when you replaced motor supports sure looks like a solid set up, tubes fastened to stringers, if stringers are fastened to floor idk what could move ? Are there rubber mounts there anywhere? Likewise when I look at the jet pics seems to fasten solidly to floor and through transom so doesn't seem like it would move. I noticed you said you could only get the nut on the yoke 2/3 of the way which seems unusual are you sure that yoke is back on there all the way ? I can almost remember something a long time ago (chrysler slant six maybe?) had roundish rubber mounts with a stud through em seems the studs were either welded or pressed into the metal part of the mounts and would come loose leaving the rubber mounted solid to the frame but the motor flopping around like crazy anything like that in there ? I keep looking back at that 2nd pic from the 4th of July and even though you found that nut was off the yoke, in the pic that yoke looks straight but the u joint is way off.

 

[heyyou325]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

Did your mount look similar to this one? That makes the most sense of anything I've heard. Most (on another site) they say I didn't have it straight or tight. And I've got pics showing it was straight, and it was tight. The pic from March was with it on the aluminum. The aluminum is fastened good to the stringer, and the stringer, but when I lift the engine the stringer will move a little. Like I had the 2X4 a fraction of an inch off the ribs. That is why I had to realign after I put the deck in. With the nut, I discovered I could get another about inch by lifting and turning the shaft, while pulling it towards the engine and just holding it loosely with the nut. Like maybe a shoulder on the shaft I couldn't see inside. There is a groove in the aluminum housing around where one of the aluminum impellers turns. It doesn't look too new to me, and the housing is fairly thick there. I don't think that nut loosened overnight. You mentioned something about the shaft or impeller in the rear, I keep rereading your post and can't find it, the pic was taken before I found I could move the shaft a little more toward the engine.
I've got the engine and drive line a little straight now, but don't have any numbers with me. I adjusted the front of the engine up between 1 1/2 and 2 threads on that adjusting bolt in the pic. Not only did that lower the yoke a little, but it also helped align side to side a little. I still need to tighten everything back down, but I think I'm ready to do that evenings or next weekend now. Then I have one plug someone put in a grease fitting hole, needs a grease zerk in it and won't come out. It never made any sense to me to change those around every time. I just leave the zerk in. And then wiring. I think is all I have left.
I forgot to ask yooper, how did you get the engine to quit moving on the rubber? Please don't tell me I need to pull the engine to do something.

 

[yooperangler]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

Hey just try getting a big pry bar in there to see if that motor is moving around at all rock it side to side and try it back and forth if you can once its all tightened down again If one of those mounts is broke loose you should be able to tip it relatively easily use a block of wood or something so you dont damage hull or anything also should be able to see if stringers or tubing is moving or flexing check the pump as well make sure theres no way (sure doesnt look like it) its moving around where its bolted thru bottom etc...Get those shafts aligned as perfect as you can
before tightening everything down use a straight edge, string and measure, anything you can to make sure its straight and not binding when it rotates.Write down any measurements you take and where from. Once its all tight and no excessive tip,wiggle,flex, (probably will rock slightly on the rubber) I think the only thing a person can do is try it again and see, remeasure after a quick test if something is moving should be able to tell.
Only thing I was saying about the impeller pic was the top blade in the pic taken from rear of boat seems (probably just because pic was taken from slightly lower angle ) a little closer to housing and it almost looks like theres a bit of a groove there and not at the bottom of the housing but again could just be the angle of the pic or design or nothing. I don't think its part of this problem as in order for that internal shaft on the jet to throw those yokes that far out of alignment the impeller would be gone,bearings would be gone etc...I really think either that motor or jet is moving somehow or when you did the last adjustments mounting in motor shafts weren't aligned.

 

[yooperangler]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

I just reread your last post again and looked back at the pics of when you first mounted motor and am wondering if your sure those stringers aren't moving around ? Seems the only thing keeping them in place would be rivets to the ribs and through floor and doesn't look like your tubes fasten to ribs so ? Seems like I would want some gussets in there to keep em plumb and square or to fasten tubing to ribs with some angle ? Just a thought.

 

[heyyou325]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

Your right about the way things are attached. But with the engine mounts attached flat on top of the square tubing, they should (should being a key word) not tip. A corner of each tube is down on I think 5 ribs. With 6 3/8" stainless bolts holding the tubing to the engine mounts. The stringers are also secured with 2 2 ft by 4 ft 1/8" aluminum plate, one on each side. The aluminum plating is I believe either 7/64 or 9/64, I don't remember, so I say 1/8". Held down with 9 or 10 rivets or ss screws. Some places I could not get a 3/16 rivet in so I used a stainless screw. Then I have 1/2 inch (should have used 5/8) plywood ahead of that riveted down tight. It seems to me for the stringers to move, they would have to break the rivets either top or bottom which are still all tight. The engine wouldn't move with a 32" crow bar with even 2 bolts with no nuts on. I had the holes and everything that tight. It's a bit looser now, but I haven't tightened anything down yet. Didn't feel like doing anything after work tonight. I think I can see the groove you are talking about from the back, hadn't noticed that before. But as I said before the aluminum is fairly thick and I don't think it's a problem. I've been wrong a few times before tho. I think I'm ready to start tightening the engine down, checking it for movement as I do.

 

[heyyou325]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

Engine is tight, I can't get any movement anywhere now. I just have a bad feeling about the driveline being too tight but man I don't want to pull it again. I got the plug out finally and a grease zerk in for the inner bearing. I still can't see why people take out grease zerks and put plugs in, then change them back to grease, and back, and so on. Esp putting a cast iron plug in an aluminum gearbox. I also got my controller freed up. Had to undo the control cable way back at the cup and straighten it out. New jack on the trailer, and new 5/16 cable on the winch for the boat. Had a productive day today. Even fixed my old T100 pickup today.

 

[heyyou325]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

Well another weekend came and gone. Boat is almost ready. I think I have all the electrical on the boat done. Took 2 days. I have to get another bilge pump, there were 2 in it so I will keep it that way. One may be ok for first try tho. I still have 2 or 3 clearance lights on the trailer too. Other than the top, I think fuel is it. I want to put in an inline electric fuel pump, as I was told (by 2 people at work) four barrel carbs all leak fuel back out of them. Do I need a marine one or can I get away with a normal one? I was trying to get the motor to start easier when the nut came off the driveline about a month ago. Back to where I was then. I also want to change out the fuel filters again, just to be safe. They're cheaper than getting help to get off the lake. I even put my coast guard numbers on today. I noticed my wife bought me two different kinds which were different sizes, but o well, it just makes it more unique. At the jetboat site I go to, they suggested leaving it on the trailer and running it to make sure everything checked out, and it didn't leak. I thought that was a good idea, but it means a weekday probably between 8 and 9. Good fishermen are out at 6 or 7, and the nuisance boaters start at about 10. And weekends, it's busy all day. If all goes well, I might see what I can do wrong with a jet boat. I hope. I know, I said something similar over a month ago.

 

[yooperangler]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

Wow your flying right along good luck with the splash. Can't help out on the fuel pump question no idea what the difference would be between marine and automotive other than the price of course.It seems like there would be a check valve somewhere to keep the fuel from bleeding back to the tank if thats the issue.

 

[heyyou325]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

An OMC inboard is not quite the same as a regular engine. I have a 350 chevy, but a lot of the electronics are different so they won't short out if they get wet. Working on them is the same tho. Just some parts. Didn't get to work on it tonight, so may have to push things to be ready by friday morning. But still my plan. Didn't get my fuel filters today, or look for a fuel pump. I imagine I will need a marine. You wouldn't want it to short out with fuel in it. But I can run it the way it is for awhile. I've had old trucks from that era that you had to crank on awhile to start to get fuel there. They all had manual chokes tho.

 

[heyyou325]

Re: New owner 21 ft 74 Starcraft aluminum runabout jet

I talked to the mechanic who fixes the Sheriffs boats yesterday and he told me if I use an electric pump it has to be wired to the oil pressure gauge so if the engine dies it doesn't pump gas on a hot engine, and everywhere else. That would defeat the purpose of having it.
Had to take half a day off to help my sister-in-law today, so I took it all off. I said I'd get the boat wet, never said I'd take it anywhere. After I got everything else ready on it, I took it to the lake, but left it on the trailer to check everything out. Took about 5 minutes to get up to 160 degrees, and stayed there at an idle, or even half speed, but at full throttle it cooled down to 140. Alternators putting out 13 volts to the main battery, but I must have wired the isolator wrong, as the second battery isn't getting anything. I payed extra for one from e-bay to get detailed installation instructions. The was nothing that came with it. I have 2 slow drips coming from my drain plugs in the engine block. Maybe 1 drip every 5 to 10 seconds, not much. I'll have to use something on the threads. Engine purrs real nice, revs and decelerates, no problem. After about 30 minutes of checking things out and listening, I decided to take it off the trailer, instead of heading to my sister-in-laws. I decided to bump the forward reverse control, and it bound up on me again. When I unhook the control cable from the forward reverse cup, it everything works fine, but with it hooked up after 1 or 2 shifts, the throttle sticks just out of the shifting position. Not sure what to adjust, but something needs it.
I don't think this counts as being on the water. But I'll get there yet.