New Project: Replacing the Transome - 1960s 17ft Starcraft

[Mflo]

Hi, Everyone. I got some great advice from here last summer and, since I'm starting a new project this summer, I'd thought I'd ask the Iboat community for some guidance. Last summer I worked on the outside of my 1960s Starcraft Aluminum boat. It turned out great so this year I'm turning my attention to the inside of the boat. I plan to replace all the wood and carpet the floor. For now I'm starting with the transom. I have a few questions before I do any irreversable mistakes. Just a bit of a disclaimer, I'm very much a novice at both working on boats so forgive me at ahead of time if I don't understand something. :noidea:

OK, so I've added some pictures of the transom. It has a crack in it and looks very old. From what I can tell, it looks like just a matter of drilling out the rivets on the end caps, removing the screws and bolt, and sliding the transom up and out. I plan to use the old transom as a template for the new one. Here are my questions:

1. When I drill out the rivets, can I replace them with screws. I don't have a rivet gun and am not sure how to use one. Also, the end caps (the only part that's riveted) stay above water. If I use screws, what kind of metal should I use. I heard I have to use a certain kind of metal for aluminum.
2. What is that plate at the back of the boat? It looks like it's epoxied on to the transom. Do I need it?
3. What type of wood should I use?
4. What should I use to water proof/seal the wood? Should I drill starter holes and then seal the wood?
5. Should I prime and paint the where the transom will sit?

I apologize if these are simple questions. I just want to make sure I do it right and, hopefull, right enough for it to last a LONG time. Thanks.

*Also, if anyone knows how I post pictures into the body of the post, please let me know (I'm sorry for uploading a ton of pics. I just wanted to avoid confusion).

 

[jbcurt00]

Wish you'd started the project as a whole, but you'll get some help along the way. Might have to risk paint damage starting from here.

Someone trimmed the transom down at some point, removed the splashwell and probably a side console as well.

What motor so you plan to use?

Tiller steer?

or

Remote steer?

Where do you plan to use the boat? Inland small/large lakes? Great Lakes? Rivers? Etc....

Take a look around in here
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/owners-groups-by-manufacturer/s/starcraft-boats
Lots of great info, you'll find the answers to your questions and then some

I prefer option 3 for pix
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/forum-rules-and-guidelines/9938375-photo-upload-tutorial

And that aluminum plate on the outside of the transom should have been removed before paint, unless you are 100% it is extremely well stuck to the transom AND isnt hiding any damage. IIRC, Starcraft didnt use metal plates originally. If there was a plate originally, it was probably plywood. Sometimes it gets replaced w pressure treated plywood that causes corrosive pitting on the transom. But if wet enough and long enough, even regular plywood against bare aluminum can cause similar corrosion.

I think you'll find most tend to treat the boat as a whole, and dont race to the end w any one aspect, until other connected areas are addressed as well.

Leak testing comes to mind, among other things impacted by the recent paint work.

 

[Mflo]

Hi, jbcurt00, thanks for the reply. I'm slowly learning just how interconnected everything is. I figure I'll have to repaint the stern as a result. I guess I wasn't thinking about how connected everything is as much as I just figured (because of time and money) I'd fix the boat up in sections. Yes, you're correct. The transom was definitely cut down. The boat was my father in-laws and he said the transom came cut. I know he used it for a few years but he really only wanted the motor (according to him). He was going to scrap it at the same time I was looking to buy a small fishing boat. He gave me the boat and trailer and I figured I'd fix it up.

As for the side console and splashwell, I'll just have to trust that you are seeing something I'm not aware of. I'm not sure how the boat was used. It came from the great lakes area near Escanaba, MI and I think it was gutted at one point. I've never been able to figure out the model.

In any case, I've been using a 15hp Evinrude tiller steer just to putz around the lakes and fish. Even though I've been on Lake Michigan with it (and had a really bad and scary experience there) the boat will mainly be used for small to mediums in-land lakes and resevoirs.

As far as the paint job. leaks are what inspired me to seal and paint it. When I would take it out, it would slowly take on water so I stripped it, sealed it (with gluv-it), primered, and painted it. I was fortunate to get great advice from Woodonglass and it came out real nice. It's water tight now too.

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat-...imer-questions

I know I probably came at this from an uninformed angle and I definitely made and will make mistakes along the way. My hope is that the good folks on here will point me in the right direction so I don't mess up too bad. And, i'm not going for a complete restoration...just a nice, comfortable fishing rig.

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

1. When I drill out the rivets, can I replace them with screws. I don't have a rivet gun and am not sure how to use one. Also, the end caps (the only part that's riveted) stay above water. If I use screws, what kind of metal should I use. I heard I have to use a certain kind of metal for aluminum.

Unless you want to add a backer board I would go to your local Lowes/Home Deopot and spring for a hand riveter kit to put the corners back on. Just as an example this and this for under $10 combined and you're doing it right with no future problems to deal with.

2. What is that plate at the back of the boat? It looks like it's epoxied on to the transom. Do I need it?

It keeps the motor clamps from digging into the AL skin of the boat. I would bet it's 5200 or some similar sealer. Either way I'd try to replace it if it's got anywhere near the rot in it that your transom board has even if it meant carefully grinding the left over wood and epoxy (still doubt it is but I've been wrong before) off of the outer skin.

3. What type of wood should I use?

Search and read here on iboats there's way too many options to list here.

4. What should I use to water proof/seal the wood? Should I drill starter holes and then seal the wood?

Same answer that I gave for #3

5. Should I prime and paint the where the transom will sit?

Sand out any corrosion you have under the wood on the skin and then yes seal it with some paint.

Other things not asked that will be helpful for the class to know -

What is the boats length over all (LOA)? Trying to nail down a model so you can fgure out where it started life and what PO's have done to it. Posting some overall pics of the boat upright will most likely help

Do want to repower or think you might want to in the future? Someone definitely cut the transom down which is not a problem so long as your motor is a short shaft and you plan on staying with a short shaft if you answered yes then the transom can be rebuilt back close to factory and this would be the time to do it.

 

[Mflo]

No Title

Hi, Truckdrivingfool, I apologize for the late response. It took me a while to return to this post with some substantial information. I have a correction, the boat is not 17ft but 16ft. I think that's the LOA. I did snap a photo of the serial# and model. So, according to the tag on the inside, it's a model "Mariner-v 16 with the serial #68 215573

As far as repowering the boat, yes I do but not for several years yet. I'd love to buy a bigger motor but I can't justify the cost right now. In the future I'd like to upgrade to a 25hp. The tag on the inside of the boat says that it shouldn't exceed 50hp. Realisticaly, as long as it can get my wife, dog, and I to different parts of lakes in reasonable time, I"m fine with that.

I did get the transom out today. I'll be starting a new thread to get Iboater's opinion on how I should proceed. I don't think there's much damage to the aluminum but I thought I'd ask before I do something that will mess up the structure of the boat.

 

[jbcurt00]

No reason to start a new topic and post some of the same pix.

You can use this topic if you want to.

Congrats on pulling the transom plywood. Dod you remove the splashwell?

 

[Mflo]

OK, I'm not sure how Iboats works and was afraid my post would be lost in the forum void . No, I didn't have to remove the splashwell because a previous owner must have removed it. I only had to remove a few rivits and lift the catwalk (i'm not sure if that the correct name for the horizontal flat part that runs on both sides of the boat) and slide it out.

I plan to remove all the wood deck from the inside of the boat and take it to the car wash to wash and scrub the bottom and transom down. After, I was going to use TSP to clean all the inside and both sides of the transom before hitting it one last time with acetone. The same process I did to the outside of the boat.
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...74-1960s-starcraft-paint-and-primer-questions

What I'm really concerned about is the condition of the transom. It looks dirty but I don't know if there is pitting (i'm not sure what to look for) and how I should repair it before prepping it for paint. I had also planned to use gluvit on the inside but since I used gluvit to seal the outside it's been water tight. I'm wondering if gluvit on the inside is overkill and if I can just paint the bottom and transom. The gunwales are going to be carpeted eventually.

 

[Mflo]

*By gunwales :cold: I mean the inside walls of the boat. I'm not sure if I used that term correctly so forgive me if I did not.

 

[64osby]

Pretty sure the 16' Mariner of that vintage did not come with a splashwell. Below is from the '71 brochure.

 

[GA_Boater]

I gotta agree with 64. I think the 68 start to the serial number is the year. We don't have a good 1968 brochure, So I'm calling it a 1968 Mariner V. She 's old enough for you to call her anything.

Is that transom wood a solid piece of wood? It looks like it was cut from a 2X12. One of the drawbacks to using dimensional lumber for transoms is they are subject to cracking - Just like yours.

 

[Mflo]

Wow, that '71 Mariner V looks pretty spot on to my boat. It has the same bench seat set up. I'll have to look tomorrow in the daytime but I don't see where the console and middle bench seat would have been connected. Although, my boat had what looked like a stock bow navigation light. That could have been added on later though. I suppose with all the years this boat has been around everything looks stock. :laugh: I know at one time it had an anchormate added to it so the light could be a later add on as well. What's curious is that there are holes covered by round metal disc in the back where the stern light from the Star Trek V would be. I'm going to assume that the frame was stock for both models and the Mariner was the cheaper of the two. In any case, thank you for finding this. I tried a few times to find out what it should look like but with no luck. I'm not looking to restore it to it's original look anyway. I've been looking at a lot of the the Jon Boats people upgrade and have some ideas about what I'm going to do for seating. I've already removed the rear bench seat and only have to remove the mounting brackets in the front.

As far as the transon, yes it one peice. I went to Lowes tonight to look for something similar but they only had 3/4 inch wide boards and the transom is 1 1/2 inches. I know I can probably glue two boards together (I see that's what others have done) but I assumed one solid peice of wood would be stronger. Was I wrong in assuming that?

The guy at Lowes said that I might be able to get a rough cut peice of wood that thick at a local mill. I thougt I'd use Woodonglass's wood treatment recipe (below) to seal it.
http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat-...2-transom-wood

I was also thinking that I would paint the transom after I seal it (for looks) but I can't seem to find any forums that discuss whether that's a good idea or not.

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

For the transom your best bet is to laminate(glue) two pieces of 3/4" plywood together to get your thickness. Strong or stronger than solid wood, more dimensional stability, and won't crack on you as GA mentioned.

Since you already did the Gluvit on the outside then yes I'd say inside is overkill but it's also more insurance against leaks.

Lastly if you're getting rid of the benches you'll need to plan in some sort of structure to regain the support for the sides of the hull. Since you mention upgraded jon boats I'll toss out there that this could be done by adding in front and rear casting decks, which would also gain you storage.

 

[Mflo]

No Title

OK, that sounds right (according to what I've seen in other post). I'm still tossing around the gluvit bit. I was just thinking about priming and painting the bottom since it's water tight but I want to redo this boat once and not have to do it over so...

You brought up a point I hadn't thought about. I didn't realize the seats provided support. I plan to build rectangle storage compartments in the stern on both the port and starboard sides so I can sit just to the side of the tiller handle. I was going to do the same at the bow. I thought long and hard about a casting deck but I like the idea of haveing walk around space (I've attached a hand drawn picture of what my tentative plans are). I think what I'll do is rivit the storage compartments to the gunwales and that screw the storage comparments to the deck. I hope that will work?

 

[64osby]

So this will be a tiller boat?

Are you going to raise the transom back up or are you going to keep it as is and just run a smaller hp motor?

Seating plan looks okay, but if a tiller, are you going to sit on the storage cooler?

 

[Mflo]

No Title

Yes, this is going to be a tiller boat. Of course, as a novice mariner I could be using that term incorrectly. What I mean is that it will be powered by an outboard. The outboard that I have now is a 15hp Evinrude and it's a short shaft. Because of that, I'm going to leave the transom wood at the same height. Hopefully, after saving a few bucks, I can power up to a 25hp but at this time, I have to prioritize my finances and be content with what I have. I'm just glad the boss (wife) lets me make small, incremental improvements (haha).

As for the storage compartment that I'll be sitting on. I'm going to build it so that I can lift the lid and put/pull a small cooler in and out of it. I'm trying to keep weight in mind and since a battery and gas can are heavy I thought I'd offset it with a cooler and me. I'm not sure how smart it is to have a gas can and battery in the same compartment though . Also, I plan to upholster the lids with water proof marine vinyl and add a bit of cushioning to avoid stump rump.

Ultimately, I decided against the casting deck because the wife, dog and I enjoy being able to walk around and sometimes I bring a couple kids along to fish.

I've posted some pictures so you can see the inspiration I've gotten from other people's projects. Of course, the dimensions for my storage comparments will differ but I hope to do something similar.

 

[TruckDrivingFool]

Tiller - Motor operated via a handle directly on the outboard requiring the operator to sit in close proximity to the motor. (Mariner in the brochure)
VS.
Remote - Motor operated via cables and a steering wheel (could also be a stick - see stick steering) from a remote location away from the motor.(Star Trek in the brochure)

If you're replacing the wood and ever going to want to go back to a long shaft motor I'd highly recommend you repair the "mod" of the PO now. Your saving money in time and materials (Help you sell it to the boss) Craigslist the short shaft you have now and find a long shaft motor, might even find someone willing to do a trade. With no SW the extra bit of height may just come in handy.

If you use your planed storage boxes to tie the sides to the floor your plan should be goo for replacing the support lost by the benches. If it was me I might even go as far as to also do some kind of cross bracing under the floor from AL angle to tie the boxes together side to side. This of course is my unprofessional opinion