New restorer looking to build a business (long, but hopefully worthwhile)

[ArmchairDeity]

Hey all... new member, first time poster. I know that jumping into a forum and asking a billion questions of people who've earned their knowledge can cause problems, so I want to start out by saying that I hope to eventually be able to give back to this community and in the meantime I understand that people have earned a lot of their knowledge the hard way, so any kind of answer is appreciated. I am the new kid on the block... i just hope that at some point I can earn my stripes and start helping others as well.

I found this place by googling for forums related to boat restoration... if you're not interested in the story just jump ahead to the questions. I won't be offended in the least if you don't care about the back story.

I started my working life in my teens working for my grandfather in his diesel shop, so I've got _substantial_ mechanical skills. For a while I worked with my mom in her redecorating and upholstery business. And I've got some experience repairing and/or restoring boats. It's always been a labor of love, and something that I think I could excel at. You see...

In my adult life I've been a business owner off and on for years. In the early/mid 2000s I build a software consultancy that was doing well enough to qualify me for a loan to buy my house as a self-employed individual. I've been in IT for almost 25 years... but I'm burnt out. I worked my way up to 6 figures only to realize that I was deeper in debt and more unhappy than I'd ever been before. I've been trying to build a career in an industry that only values a portion of my skill set and where I lack the particular skills for functioning comfortably in the corporate world. I am apparently too up front and too straightforward to do well in the corporate world and the effort it takes to sit at a desk all day type code was sucking the life out of me.

So it's been a long, hard struggle for me to come to the realization that it's time for a change.

So I've been unemployed since last November and have sort of been on a soul-searching quest to figure out what to do with myself. I've looked at real estate, going back to my previous career, auto sales... but none of it fits. I've been looking at the boating world and the fishing world for a while now, trying to figure out how to turn the thing I love to work on the most into a career I can use to support my family.

To add to the info, I am a die-hard do-it-yourselfer around the house, so I have practically a whole shop full of tools including a TIG/MIG Hobard welder, air compressor, all the mechanic tools you could want, and most of the tools required to run a general contractor. I guess I'm a bit of a tool addict, so I pick up what I can whenever I have any kind of justification for it.

I've always been a believer in listening and learning, which is how I managed to do as well as I did in the IT world despite the issues I have struggled with in that particular industry.

So I am aware of my weaknesses and strengths, aware of the effort involved in building a successful business and have put a great deal of time and thought into picking the direction I want to go. Now the only questions to answer are whether I can do it profitably in this economy and experience-based issues like... assuming I'm going to buy a boat for restoration and resale how do I pick a boat that can be restored within budget and resold with a reasonable profit?

Right now I have my eye on a 1962 Chris Craft Sea Skiff for $3000. There are several Chris Craft available in my area for anywhere between $600 (for a pile of boards and an old engine) and $10,000. But that's the only name I am really aware of in the high-end boat market (if that's even that high-end, I honestly don't know!) So I turn to a community of people involved in the industry in hopes I can at least get some good starting pointers and build a few relationships.

The other thing I'm considering is buying boats outright and then placing them with charter services to bring in a residual income every month/quarter/year and doing it enough to actually build a decent passive income. The thing is I've heard of this idea but I know nothing about it other than people do it with motor yachts to cover their monthly payment... learned about that at the boat show here in town.

So I put this all out there in hopes that some of the good people of the iBoats forums will reply and I can start doing something productive with myself and put some decent boats back out there for people to love and enjoy. I'm getting tired of collecting unemployment and really REALLY want to invest myself in something gainful again.

Thanks all... I know that this was a long post, so I appreciate y'all reading thru it.

 

[Bondo]

Re: New restorer looking to build a business (long, but hopefully worthwhile)

Right now I have my eye on a 1962 Chris Craft Sea Skiff for $3000. There are several Chris Craft available in my area for anywhere between $600 (for a pile of boards and an old engine) and $10,000. But that's the only name I am really aware of in the high-end boat market (if that's even that high-end, I honestly don't know!) So I turn to a community of people involved in the industry in hopes I can at least get some good starting pointers and build a few relationships.

Ayuh,.... Welcome Aboard,.... While ChrisCraft is a Classic,.... Not all ChrisCrafts are Classics...

There are many hulls that have cult followin's, 'n are True Classics,...

Refittin', 'n refurbin' can be a money maker,...

A few names/ models I've run across that qualify are Bertram Moopie,...
Old Town Atlantis,... Highliner 222,... 'n of course, 1000s more...

Most of what I'm involved in is refittin' newer Merc drivelines in Classics that were OMC powered...

After seenin' a '72 Highliner 222 sell for $22,000. last year,...
It became obvious to me that paint, 'n finish means more than it's driveline,...

That 1 had an ole 5.0l, 2bbl. carb, Alpha 1...

For $22,000..... I'd wanta see a 5.0l MPI, Alpha, Gen.II in it... maybe it's just me...

 

[jasoutside]

Re: New restorer looking to build a business (long, but hopefully worthwhile)

I'd say before you throw all sorts of time/money into a full fledged business, just restore and sell one, see how that goes. Then do another. See what that feels like, see what kind of cash that generates, then go from there eh.

I fear you'll be disappointed with the actual profit involved.

There have been a number of absolutely stunning CC's for sale in my area. Seems like they are listed forever and I can't help but wonder if the sellers actually end up breaking even financially, never mind the man hours involved.

 

[emoney]

Re: New restorer looking to build a business (long, but hopefully worthwhile)

Like anything, the key is price point. Talk to car dealers and they'll tell you right now things are absolutely horrible.....unless you happen upon someone keeping 5-7k vehicles. Talk to boat dealers and...well, you probably are already getting the point. Cash is king, so if I were to be dipping my toes into the "boat-restore-for-a-profit" business (assuming it exists, of course), I'd want to be able to retail the finished product for something in that 10k and under (maybe much under depending on area)realm. Like Jasoutside said, however, you may be disappointed in the return on investment when you factor in labor hours. Which, if this is a business, must be factored in.

Having said all that, it seems to me that the potential profit truly lies in the individual job. What I mean is, why not focus the business on doing specific projects for current boat owners? You could even menu it out to the point of having a top line item as "Complete Makeover/Resto" = x amount of dollars, all the way down to "stereo install" = x. Make sense? Probably wouldn't hurt to have a boat that you've taken from ugly and made it beautiful again as your calling card, so-to-speak. But, it's something to consider at least.

 

[mberliner1626]

Re: New restorer looking to build a business (long, but hopefully worthwhile)

ACD - Where are you located?

 

[mberliner1626]

Re: New restorer looking to build a business (long, but hopefully worthwhile)

There is a 1964 Chris Craft Cutlass 22 for free on wooden boat rescue in NY.

Just a heads up.

 

[25thmustang]

Re: New restorer looking to build a business (long, but hopefully worthwhile)

I replied to your other thread, but will post my 2 cents here.

It sounds like your looking at restoring a classic boat? Remember this, a small mahogany classic will probably fetch more $$ than a big wooden one. People don't want to take care of old wood boats, even restored ones. There was an old Egg Harbor that was redone and put for sale. I remember the price dropped by hundreds of thousands of dollars. It seamed no one wanted it.

To make a real profit you needs low entry fee, a low resto fee, and a boat that will sell in the end. I say go find a smaller free boat, rebuild it quick and see what it fetches. If you succeed move up. If not, it might just not be the time to restore and sell boats.

 

[bryanwess2000]

Re: New restorer looking to build a business (long, but hopefully worthwhile)

I think if you fill in where your located the guys might be able to better help. Your location will dictate which boats would be best to restore for your area. If along the coast or near the coast classic Boston Whalers, Seacrafts, Bertrams, Makos. I'm shure there's plenty of others. If your in the northeast coastal area you may make out better going to florida and buying later model boats like Contenders, Regulators, etc. and reselling them at home. I think your going to have to be willing to take advantage of some unfortunate seller to leave enough room to sell for a profit. I don't think it would work in my area. I view it as more of a hobby rather than a business opportunity. Like was said earlier try one or two and go from there, or offer a repair service and price any job you don't want extremely high so it's ok if you get it ok if you don't.

 

[calvinator]

Re: New restorer looking to build a business (long, but hopefully worthwhile)

I have a friend that buys/sells/restores old skool Ski Natiques. He has 7-12 natique projects active at all times. He is always hustling to keep his business alive. A brisk part of his business is Natique motor rebuilds and replacements. And not every natique is showroom quality --- some are used and fit a specific market/price point. He is in that business, but also has several channels to make money.

Financially, he does OK ($150k) and has some flexibility to his schedule. I have a corporate job, and he is always envious about my 9-5 schedule and vacation times. In his world, job schedules, health care costs, and finding good employees consumes him alot.

I think you should go for it. But make sure you have some other services to keep the cash flow moving. For example, around here there is huge demand and long wait times for outdrive services. A different example is my friend who owns a small engine repair shop (lawnmowers, snowblowers, etc). Not everyone needs a new engine, so he supplements the work with a $95 service that sharpens the blade, install carb rebuild kit, get it running good. He sells a lot of those and keeps a nice cash flow.

 

[JDA1975]

Re: New restorer looking to build a business (long, but hopefully worthwhile)

I started doing this lately and the actual restores don't come in, I have had a lot of "tire kicking" but once they get the estimate, they realize that they can buy another boat that will last a few seasons for a lot less...My primary business is upholstery now, because people are willing to pay 1-2K on upholstery work, but not 5-7K on a refit/restore...I went into this to give myself a time killer....it does not make me rich, nor do I ever see it making me rich....I make enough to pay the bills and that's all I expect from it!

 

[ArmchairDeity]

Re: New restorer looking to build a business (long, but hopefully worthwhile)

First off, I have now added my location. NW suburbs, Minneapolis, MN. Sorry I should have had that in there in the first place.

I think you guys have some really good input. I will definitely take it all into consideration as I look at this.

@ Emoney, I kind of naturally started thinking more in terms of that $10k/under market over the last 24 hours, so it's timely advice.

And @ 25thmustang, exactly... low entry cost, minimal restore, decent resale price. It's all about finding the hidden deals out there, really. In a way, I hate to say it, but in order to make this work I almost have to look for situations where I can low-ball sellers so I can make the margins I need to make it worthwhile. That said, I will probably always be open with people, saying "I know my price is low, but I have to refurb and resell, and I may even need to factor in holding costs." It's similar to real-estate flipping or the pawn pricing system where you need to buy low and sell high to make any kind of money.

They're out there, it just takes some effort to find the deals and make them work.

Lots of food for thought here, folks, thank you.

 

[Brenn]

Re: New restorer looking to build a business (long, but hopefully worthwhile)

atleast from what little Ive seen theres some deals in your area to be had