New truck....exhaust question

[badkins50]

I do agree with one point. If your going to do it, do it right and replace headers and everything. Sound is great and cheap to achieve but If your looking for the mileage then, from my personal experience, I used a cold air intake system from k&n on my RAM 1500 and jumped 2 mpg then changed the injectors, and chip along with some comp settings to get the beat results and the will be different depending on your settings. Good luck and let us know what you do.

sent from my bolt using tapatalk

 

[bruceb58]

Re: New truck....exhaust question

Since the MAF determines how much fuel is dumped into the engine based on the amount of air and its density, no air filter is going to improve your MPG. It MAY increase power but that is debatable. Cold air intakes are also generally a waste of money as well.

 

[dlindeblad]

Re: New truck....exhaust question

Borla makes a very nice exhaust system for your vehicle, but it will set you back $1,142.

 

[NSBCraig]

Re: New truck....exhaust question

I have an 04 of the same truck.

Personally I've been looking into putting some headers on it but leaving the rest alone. No you don't get that loud exhaust sound, but you actually get a performance increase . Sound does improve but your not just making it loud, cause that's really all a cat back is...


Also a K&N filter that is properly oiled will not allow anything in your engine! Why would anybody say that? It makes zero sense. And yes a better breathing filter helps power and economy.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: New truck....exhaust question

And yes a better breathing filter helps power and economy.

Doesn't help economy at all with a fuel injected engine.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/maintain.shtml
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/Air_Filter_Effects_02_26_2009.pdf

Carbed engine it would help since a clogged air filter would affect mixture.

Also a K&N filter that is properly oiled will not allow anything in your engine! Why would anybody say that? It makes zero sense.

As far as how much dirt passed with a K&N this test shows the K&N passes a heck of a lot of dirt vs others.
http://home.roadrunner.com/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
Bottom line...use the stock AC filter on your truck if you want the best filter. Use the K&N if you want the most dirt in your engine. I used to use K&Ns. I don't anymore. I personally found way to much dust after the filter in my intake system and I had not even read this test yet.

An engine is basically an air pump. If you want more power you need to figure out how to make it pump more air. You can slap on any number of things and it won't help a bit if there is one thing that is preventing more air to go through. That is why Vortec heads were so important for creating more power in these engines...because they flowed air better. Changing just the exhaust or just the headers or just the intake won't do anything if the heads aren't flowing at their maximum operating peak for example. People spend a lot of money on aftermarket ad ons for their vehicles and the only thing it does is make their wallet lighter and give then an emotional feeling that since they spent money that somehow it has to run better.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: New truck....exhaust question

Cold air intakes might help you get denser air if you can get air from outside of the engine compartment. Problem is, you either need it to be so low to the bottom of the car as to have it capable of possibly sucking water or through the hood like this guy did!

 

[LMM1967]

Re: New truck....exhaust question

Banks - their customer service has gone downhill lately and they are proud of their products (pricing wise)

MBRP - very good, high quality and they stand behind their products, nice easy installs.

Want (most of the time!) the BEST sounding and performing exhaust? Corsa, but sit down before looking at the prices.

K&N - there are MUCH better intakes for the same or lower price. Look at aFe

MagnaFlow / Flowmaster - very commercialized and rely on their names, they are great for ordering generic mufflers etc if you are custom building an exhuast.

Tuners - Edge, unless you want to make crazy HP that will destroy a stock motor / trans, then go to BlackMax or PPE.

My background - I'm an authorized dealer for just about any company that makes aftermarket performance parts for domestic gas or diesel trucks - I'm not a vendor on the site and am not trying to sell parts here - just offering my opinion based on experiences I witness from customers on a daily basis.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: New truck....exhaust question

I installed a Banks Power Pack System on my '94 454 Suburban. That engine was a total slug. It would hit 3k rpm and absolutely fall flat. With the Banks system, it now pulls strong up to the 4800 rpm redline.

At the same time, I installed a HiFlow Cat which did not come with the Banks system. Everythng else is mandrel bent SS. The headers themselves have 3/4" flanges and needed no gaskets. I still have the Suburban and the Banks System has never caused an issue.

I will however say that my gas mileage did not improve, just the increased power.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: New truck....exhaust question

I installed a Banks Power Pack System on my '94 454 Suburban.

I recall that early 90s Suburban 454s were know to have an issue with how the "Y" after the manifolds was manufactured. There were actually instruction how you cut a piece out of the tube that leaves the "Y" and cut out extra material where the two pipes join internally and then patch up the access hole you created.

454s were really doggy until the Vortec heads hit in 96. I had a 99 Suburban and that thing had very good power all the way through the power band.

 

[NSBCraig]

Re: New truck....exhaust question

Doesn't help economy at all with a fuel injected engine.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/maintain.shtml
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/Air_Filter_Effects_02_26_2009.pdf

Carbed engine it would help since a clogged air filter would affect mixture.

As far as how much dirt passed with a K&N this test shows the K&N passes a heck of a lot of dirt vs others.
http://home.roadrunner.com/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm
Bottom line...use the stock AC filter on your truck if you want the best filter. Use the K&N if you want the most dirt in your engine. I used to use K&Ns. I don't anymore. I personally found way to much dust after the filter in my intake system and I had not even read this test yet.

An engine is basically an air pump. If you want more power you need to figure out how to make it pump more air. You can slap on any number of things and it won't help a bit if there is one thing that is preventing more air to go through. That is why Vortec heads were so important for creating more power in these engines...because they flowed air better. Changing just the exhaust or just the headers or just the intake won't do anything if the heads aren't flowing at their maximum operating peak for example. People spend a lot of money on aftermarket ad ons for their vehicles and the only thing it does is make their wallet lighter and give then an emotional feeling that since they spent money that somehow it has to run better.

I love when people actually have some kind of info to support their ideas!


Your right a motor is a pump and more power comes from making it pump more air.

Where I get lost in your post is you comment on how good his heads are but say that unless they are good nothing will help . Huh?

Doing more work on the heads will do little if the rest of the system don't flow enough to keep up. While removing the biggest restrictions will. The largest restriction there is are the exhaust manifolds (why I mentioned buying some good headers). Cat back systems also reduce restrictions but his exhaust is already good, no it's not the greatest flowing but real close and not loud just to be loud.

As to cold air intakes- Well your tests didn't test them. The one was testing direct replacement filters in a duramax- no new airbox or cleaner plumbing just the filter so the only data you can apply from that are what they set out to prove and I'm sure if we do some more looking we'll find tests that say different. So we'll see if K&N filters are that bad and if everyone using them is well... Either way still no info on a cold air intake or the filters in them.

Ok so I might say your right on a filter not helping mpg but then I don't cause if your truck (that's really what were talking about not a camry or charger) is loaded or towing more power for the same mpg is economy. That's what they said more power over all the test but no noticeable difference in mpg. Meaning you can do more for the same money.

I agree with you in some peoples situation about spending for nothing but were only discussing one truck here.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: New truck....exhaust question

As to cold air intakes- Well your tests didn't test them. The one was testing direct replacement filters in a duramax- no new airbox or cleaner plumbing just the filter so the only data you can apply from that are what they set out to prove and I'm sure if we do some more looking we'll find tests that say different. So we'll see if K&N filters are that bad and if everyone using them is well... Either way still no info on a cold air intake or the filters in them.

You are correct...the sole purpose of that test was to show how crappy a job K&N filters did at filtering the air. Nothing to do with cold air intake at all.

As far as what your MPG is for a given engine output, for example towing at 55MPH or accelerating up to a given speed in a given time, the air filter type or cleanliness has no bearing on your MPG assuming the engine is fuel injected with a MAF sensor.

Just so you know, I did buy into the K&N hype and drank the kool-aid at one time. To me the data was overwhelming to not use them anymore so I switched back over to regular filters. There was another test that I need to find that showed the difference between a K&N filter when it comes from the factory and when it is cleaned and reoiled. There is a fine line between having enough oil sprayed on it to actaully duplicate the filtering that it originally came with and applying too much and have it coat your MAF sensor.

 

[NSBCraig]

Re: New truck....exhaust question

As far as what your MPG is for a given engine output, for example towing at 55MPH or accelerating up to a given speed in a given time, the air filter type or cleanliness has no bearing on your MPG assuming the engine is fuel injected with a MAF sensor.

Wait one minute! There's something wrong with the Kool Aid!


Why does loading my truck up with concrete lower my mpg?

Because of the power to weight ratio. A motor that makes more power does not need to work as hard to move the load. They plainly stated that with a clean filter the cars had more power and accelerated better. A car that accelerates better spends less time accelerating to get up to speed using less fuel.

I get what your saying but if your motor can't breath the only option the computer has is to decrease the amount of fuel to make the proper air to fuel ratio. Further restricting it only makes it continue to lower the amount of fuel it will allow in. Less air + less fuel= less power. Oh yeah and go the other way and it gets more air allowing the computer to respond with more fuel= more power.

The test data really only goes so far. They tested vehicles completely unlike what were discussing. Yes their data did NOT show any real difference in mpg for their test vehicles. This does NOT make it so in all instances.

Remember the computer is adjusting for a good burn not for mpg.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: New truck....exhaust question

Why does loading my truck up with concrete lower my mpg?

Because of the power to weight ratio. A motor that makes more power does not need to work as hard to move the load. They plainly stated that with a clean filter the cars had more power and accelerated better. A car that accelerates better spends less time accelerating to get up to speed using less fuel.

You completely miss the point of the test. Of course the peak power is reduced with the dirty air filter. They explained that. Not sure how often you accelerate with the pedal mashed to the floor. I certainly don't. If you are using 50% of your power accelerating up to highway speed, you will need a certain amount of air to flow past the filter. If the filter is dirty, you will need to open the throttle valve a little more to compensate for this. The MAF will provide the proper amount of fuel for this mass of air that is entering the engine. Not sure why this is so hard to comprehend.

By the way, your MPG has nothing to do with power to weight ratio. Has everything to do with weight though. Takes a certain amount of energy to get an object moving of a certain weight. That is a physical fact. You will need more energy to get a 10lb vehicle with a 1 HP motor up to 5 MPH than a 10,000lb vehicle with a 1000HP engine even though they have identical power/weight ratios. Once you are up to speed, size and shape of the vehicle contributes to wind drag, weight contributes to rolling drag. Takes a certain amount of HP to overcome this drag which will take a certain amount of air/fuel through the engine.

 

[NSBCraig]

Re: New truck....exhaust question

What???

Weight has nothing to due with mpg??? Your physical fact for one is not a fact. Re-think that one a bit.


Seriously brother when I stick a pallet of pavers in the truck the only thing that changed was power to weight, so why did the mpg drop?

When I tow a low trailer loaded with materials at 40mph the mpg drops. It's not wind resistance it's weight.

These are real life facts that I know from my wallet not some test or theory.

It costs me more. I don't see what's so hard to see about that!

Power to weight doesn't matter that's just silly- stick a smaller motor in my truck and drive it with traffic while loaded you'll spend more.

You know your taking one test and deciding it proves all things when no test does that and no one who researches anything would think that it was law like you have. It's data, that's it. There has been so many test that don't say that by so many different companies (and agencies) that say different things about the same thing. Who's right, who's wrong??

I don't know but when I'm spending more money one week compared to the last month I look at what changed and figuring out that it's cause you've been hauling weight in the truck is real simple to understand.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: New truck....exhaust question

What???

Weight has nothing to due with mpg??? Your physical fact for one is not a fact. Re-think that one a bit.

Maybe you should read my post again.

Has everything to do with weight though.

weight contributes to rolling drag.

Curious that are you disputing the findings of the articles I posted that a dirty air filter doesn't change MPG on fuel injected vehicles but then again it is apparent you didn't read my post and what they wrote very carefully.

 

[NSBCraig]

Re: New truck....exhaust question

Dude your just arguing to argue. Guess it gives you something to do.

Either way none of it has anything to do with the op's truck or his questions about it.

Enjoy!