New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

UpstNYer · Jul 31, 2003

Purchased a new (but leftover) 2002 Fisher 16 Pro Avenger SC this spring. Hull is welded Aluminum Deep-V. Noticed after every outing that 10 or so gallons of water were draining out of it. I figured water was leaking in at about 2 gph. Took it back to the dealer for warranty service. Fisher is part of Tracker Marine and has a 'Fish Forever' lifetime hull warranty. Dealer filled hull with water and watched it leak out at the welds "everywhere". I asked: "At transom, keel or sides?" The service rep. responded: "Everywhere." They took pictures of the leaks and forwarded them to Fisher asking for instructions. The dealer doesn't know how to fix it. A local metal fabricator was consulted and didn't want to touch it. I can understand why...without a jig the hull could warp when welded. They can't tell me when I'll be back on the water. Would like to know if anyone else has had experience with Fisher welded hulls and whether this is common. How are leaking welds normally repaired? The fact that they took it to a welding shop gives me some confidence...at least they weren't going for a 'Bondo fix'. Should I be asking for a new hull? On the water I like it; it rides nice and stays dry even if it is a bit slow. Its 40hp Merc can't get it much over 20mph. Thought this type of construction was supposed to be tougher than riveted hulls. Apparently it's not. Tracker's gone to welded hulls on the 2003 models. Comparing models, Fisher and Tracker lines are very close in the Specs. Thanks for listening. Bob

roscoe · Jul 31, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

Blue Fin became Spectrum and product lines were parralel to Fisher, Then Brunswich kind of combined them all. Now Fisher is part of Tracker. I've got a Spectrum, 1995, Avenger SC 16', 70 hp. I get water too. Never was able to locate the source. Some days its a quart, some days a gallon.???? I know the older (1990) Fishers were solid as a rock. I suspect shortcut have been taken. I believe NY has a lemon law, check to see if it applies to boats. You may be able to get all of your money back if the cost of repair is above a certain $ amount. I also can't believe they sold you that boat with a 40hp on the back. That boat needs more power, its heavy. Typical Tracker Marine tactic to sell you an underpowered boat. http://www.oag.state.ny.us/consumer/cars/newcarlemon.html

jim phillips · Jul 31, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

A friend of mine had the same problem he got a new boat from the dealer

UpstNYer · Aug 1, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

Thanks, Roscoe, for the Lemon Law link. Looked the site over but could not determine from their FAQ list whether powerboats are covered. Off-road vehicles, apparently, are not. Left them a query; we'll see what they say. Yeah, the 40 is definitely too small for the boat. With two aboard and the fuel tank half full, it struggles to get up on the step. With three people, I don't think it could make it. Asked the salesman whether the 40 was enough a couple of times when I bought. Unfortunately my experience is limited to fishing boats that used to be considered 'cartoppers'. The 40 does run nice and is very easy on gas. Got 4yrs of extended motor warr. at time of purchase. Figure if they resolve this with a new hull, I'll try to talk dealer into putting a 60 or 75 on the back in place of the 40. Max for boat is 90hp but I've heard the new 90 Mercs are rough. Hopefully he won't rip me too hard on the upgrade costs. If it does come to a new hull, do you think I'd be out-of-line requesting that he leak test it before accepting? Just wanna get back on the water. Bob

Luna Sea · Aug 1, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

Bob, Any reputable dealer should take that hull back, and give you a new boat. There has to be some sort of warranty. I have a riveted Lund and have read the same as you about welded hulls. Go in there and be firm, bring some friends with you. And tell them they also sold you an underpowered boat. If it won't get up and plane it's simply the wrong engine. I've read of this "tactic" before. You'll come in next year to "upgrade". That's BS! They also do that to make the price of the package more appealing. But that's just bad business to me. Give em hell Bob! And good luck!

lakeman1999 · Aug 1, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

I would not be satisfied with a repair, I would insist on a new boat, and the dealer should give you a loner till you get it, he would expect nothing less. AS for weld, or rivits, a properly built riveted hull is best. That is why your better boats are riveted.

Luna Sea · Aug 1, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

Bob, Read what "UU" said in this last post. http://www.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=034209 They should not have sold you an engine that's less that half the horsepower the boats rated for. They must have been just trying to get rid of it!

baitfish · Aug 1, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

HI, AS A FELLOW UPSTATER I ALSO OWN A 16'FISHER.I BOUGHT IT NEW MINES A 1987. I HAVE HAD THE KEEL WELDED ABOUT 7 OR 8 YRS. AFTER I BOUGHT IT.. A SPOT ONLY ABOUT 6-10"... OTHER THAN THAT NO PROBLEMS...I LOVE IT!

HOPE YOU MAKE OUT OK..WHARE DID YOU BUY IT?? LOCAL???GOOD LUCK,ALEX...

DJ · Aug 1, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

Bob, WHOA!!!! Welds leaking!

I do not believe you can fix that boat. If it's painted, it will never look new again. I think you need a new boat. Not a refund, a new boat. I do not agree with the others. You weren't SOLD an underpowered boat, you bought an underpowered boat. Big difference. The final choice to buy was yours. Noone forced you. Did you get bad advice from the saleman-probably. Coerced to buy-not likely. Don't expect the dealer to give up a 60 or 75 for free. The cost differential between a 40 and a 75 is quite large. However, your willingness to "upgrade" may go a long way in your negotiations on the whole mess.

UpstNYer · Aug 2, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

Djohns, you are right; I bought an underpowered boat. I didn't know several things about this class of boat when I went looking and admitted as much to the salesman. Specifically I didn't appreciate how much heavier the welded hulls are than the riveted 14 and 15 ft. Alumacraft and Grumman I'm familiar with. Probably didn't appreciate the effect of the Deep-V design or the added beam either. My bad I guess. No one coerced me to buy; bought because the quoted price fit my budget and it was more boat than I expected to get. Asked salesman at least twice whether the 40 would be enough. Both times he asked if I was going to pull skiers; the anwer was No. "Then 40 should be enough." was the response. True, the added cost of a larger motor may have sent me into some more serious comparison shopping, so the salesman may have been afraid of losing the sale. For all that, I can live with the little 40 as long as I keep the load down in the boat. It's just not a combination anyone should recommend. BTW, the saleman's left the company I bought from. A new hull would seem to be the most logical solution from the viewpoint of the manufacturer and dealer. However, if Fisher could let something this bad get out the door, I'm wondering how much better a new hull would be. Might just get another leaky hull that leaks less. And when I go back a second time to complain I'll hear, "Bob, they're all that way.". A full purchase price credit toward a new Alumacraft (which they also carry) package would probably be ideal from my point of view. Don't know if I have any hope of such a thing, but I'll ask. This time the engine choice will be at, or close to the high end of the range. This problem, like many others, may be an opportunity to correct a mistake. C.Crunch, I hesitate to post the name of the place where the Fisher was purchased. They may have every intention of making this good. The protocol of handling this probably involves delays they can't control. I have to remember that they've been shafted as well...stuck with a bad hull that they can't fix and an unhappy customer to boot. I will post their name if this ends badly; or at least get it to you by email. Thanks, all, for the inputs. I'm a babe in the woods with this stuff but, thanks to you, learning fast. Bob

DJ · Aug 2, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

Bob, I think your chances of getting stung twice are pretty slim. It would be reasonable and prudent for any person to expect a new boat not to leak. The chances of them refunding your money is pretty slim. Trading you out, is a better option. Who knows, they may have a year old version of something with a little more power that they can put you into without any any extra cash, out of pocket. With your willingness to work with them, thy may get very creative. Good luck.

UpstNYer · Aug 2, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

Djohns, you are right; I bought an underpowered boat. I didn't know several things about this class of boat when I went looking and admitted as much to the salesman. Specifically I didn't appreciate how much heavier the welded hulls are than the riveted 14 and 15 ft. Alumacraft and Grumman I'm familiar with. Probably didn't appreciate the effect of the Deep-V design or the added beam either. My bad I guess. No one coerced me to buy; bought because the quoted price fit my budget and it was more boat than I expected to get. Asked salesman at least twice whether the 40 would be enough. Both times he asked if I was going to pull skiers; the anwer was No. "Then 40 should be enough." was the response. True, the added cost of a larger motor may have sent me into some more serious comparison shopping, so the salesman may have been afraid of losing the sale. For all that, I can live with the little 40 as long as I keep the load down in the boat. It's just not a combination anyone should recommend. BTW, the saleman's left the company I bought from. A new hull would seem to be the most logical solution from the viewpoint of the manufacturer and dealer. However, if Fisher could let something this bad get out the door, I'm wondering how much better a new hull would be. Might just get another leaky hull that leaks less. And when I go back a second time to complain I'll hear, "Bob, they're all that way.". A full purchase price credit toward a new Alumacraft (which they also carry) package would probably be ideal from my point of view. Don't know if I have any hope of such a thing, but I'll ask. This time the engine choice will be at, or close to the high end of the range. This problem, like many others, may be an opportunity to correct a mistake. C.Crunch, I hesitate to post the name of the place where the Fisher was purchased. They may have every intention of making this good. The protocol of handling this probably involves delays they can't control. I have to remember that they've been shafted as well...stuck with a bad hull that they can't fix and an unhappy customer to boot. I will post their name if this ends badly; or at least get it to you by email. Thanks, all, for the inputs. I'm a babe in the woods with this stuff but, thanks to you, learning fast. Bob

UpstNYer · Aug 2, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

OOPS! Sorry for the double post. Forum leader: please correct my mess up. Thanks Bob

Zertis · Aug 2, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

UpstNYer, Sorry to hear that you have such a problem with this boat. I am looking for a new boat and have looked real hard at the same boat that you purchased. I was leaning towards this model until I read your post this morning. Honestly, your experience scares the crap out of me. I thought that the welded boats were made to prevent such potential leaks? I guess the possibility of getting a lemon exists in all boats but I had ruled out a rivet boat for fear of this problem. Maybe I was wrong to assume that all welded means no leaks! I really feel for you and your situation. I would be banging on the dealers door daily to resolve this problem. Don't settle for a fix, demand a new boat! Thanks for posting your experiences. I hope the dealer and manufacturer will make it right for you quickly.

DJ · Aug 2, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

Let's all be careful here. ALL is a very strong word. Just because one has problems, you cannot automatically condemn a whole company or type of boat. My sister in law just had a new Mercedes bought back (replaced) because it kept dying on her. Does that mean that ALL Mercedes products are bad-NOPE!

Zertis · Aug 2, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

djohns19, Your point is well taken sir. I believe that quailty control can be a loose term when it comes to just about anything manufactured. Yes I agree that the possibility of purchasing a product with problems exists with any boat made welded or riveted. The phrase one bad apple comes to mind. However, in my own search for a new boat, most dealers key on the fact that their boat is welded to prevent leaks. Most of the manufacturers who offer welded boats boast this as being the preferred method of assembly.I also believed that the welding process was the best way to go to prevent any leaking into the boat. Maybe I have sold myself short on this concept. I really think this forum is great. I have learned a lot from reading the experiences and opinions of others. Thanks to all who visit and give their time to help others.

lakeman1999 · Aug 2, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

If you take a good look around, you will find that high quality, higher priced boats are usually riveted. "ALL" cheaper low line boats are welded.

lepper · Aug 2, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

lakeman your a funny guy.. what he really means is that if you for sure want a leaky boat.. get a riveted one.. rivets start poppin.. If you just bought the thing I wouldn't settle for a re-welded boat I would make them exchange it for a new one. dave <--- welded boat owner..

Mettaree · Aug 3, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

My opinion for what it is worth - riveted. I have an Alumacraft 14FT flat, 1979 model, if you look at the bottom you'd probably get seasick. Its been over every cypress knee around and still doesn't leak. Hope your's turns out OK. Fair Skys

UpstNYer · Aug 3, 2003

Re: New Welded Alum. Hull Leaking Badly

Thanks for the inputs guys. I plan to ask for a new boat and put a 90hp Merc on it before it hits the water. If Fisher doesn't come through, I'll ask for trade-in credit toward a new Alumacraft package from the same dealer. Looking at it as an opportunity to get it right. Education is expensive these days. There's a 14 ft. Alumacraft that's been in my family for nearly 50 years. My Dad bought it used. Left outdoors and neglected, it's always ready to go. Caught a lot of fish and covered a lot of miles in that old girl. What was I thinking.... Bob

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