Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

Edward B. · Nov 19, 2004

I really love sailboats and I'm interested in getting into sailing; I'm just wondering how much you can really do with a sailboat in the 18-23' range (I'm thinking in particular of the respective Catalina models). I read on another site that people have taken 18 footers from California to Catalina Island and as far as Hawaii. Do only people who have been sailing for 25+ years do this? This seems like a stretch to me, but what exactly makes a smaller boat bad for ocean going. Is it high winds, a light/tossable size, what?? Is the Pacific "nicer" than the Atlantic (in general)? I live in Virginia and would be trailering a boat and have a notion of sailing in the Chesapeake Bay. Do people sail to places like the Bahamas and Prince Edward Island often, and if so what's the "recommended" size minium (and experience minimum) for such an excursion? Obviously I'm not thinking that I'm gonna run out and tackle an ocean-going adventure out of the box, so to speak, but I just don't want to simply sailing around a "bathtub" all day. I assume something like crossing the Chesapeake to the Eastern Shore would be totally doable for a boat in the 18-23' range, right? Sorry for machine-gun-like questions. I'm about to go to the book store to read as much as I can about all this stuff. It's been frustrating finding adequate online resources for such info. Thanks in advance for the help!

bayman · Nov 19, 2004

Re: Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

Yoeddie, I recommend that you first take a sailing class before you buy a boat. When you do buy one, start off with something small and get good at it. When it becomes second nature you can move up in size. Yes, people can and do take Catalinas on long distances. Some of those boats aren't really ocean going vessels though. You really need to know what you are doing to go on long cruises like this as there are many dangers. There are many good sailing books out there. Be sure to read and study a lot. You might want to take a basic boating safety and navigation class first - before taking a sailing class.

Rideout · Nov 19, 2004

Re: Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

It's been 15 years since I had my Catalina 22. It a small, fun great starter boat, even an occasional overnighter for a couple. It is not an ocean going vessel. In Annapolis, crossing the bay is 4 miles, in good weather we did it all the time. Headed to St Michaels occasionally (22mi), once had to drive back because the weather turned. If you're in the southern bay, it's big, open water. Not to be trifled with. It's a fun day boat for nearshore, but you don't want to be caught in the middle of the bay in bad weather. I'm sure some guy has taken one to the Bahama's but that doesn't mean that's what the boat was made for

Edward B. · Nov 19, 2004

Re: Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

I do totally intend to take a sailing course. I wouldn't go out and buy a boat without knowing what the heck I'm doing (though I admit part of the appeal, once knowing the basics, is learning--at least for me). My frustration, and maybe I just wasn't looking in the right place(s), is that I was trying to find a good "general" idea of what sizes of boats are good for what. It's frustrating I guess to see that you'd have to have like a dang 40 footer (and thus spend six figures) to really take the boat anywhere on a cruise--while some of the reasons were obvious, lack of room, stove, gally, etc, others were not, such as why exactly is bigger better (and I'd already assumed that it was due to wind strength as well as ocean swells, etc). Though I had wondered how much of it wasn't vessel related and was instead sheer experience and "rough-it-tough-it" mentality (not needing a built-in galley or shower--things only bigger boats have, obviously). I guess my biggest issue is trying to determine what kind of sailing I want to do, for now at least--and of course what I have the budget for. I think ultimately and ideally to me a sailboat is a sort of open-ended ticket to the world. So for now I have to determine what to get to learn on to later justify the $300,000 "yacht".

So finally getting more to a point, what would most of you say the max capability of something like the Catalina 18 would be? How about the 22? Another question barrage: Would it perhaps make more sense to go w/ something that has no built-in overnight capability (e.g. Hunter 170, which is also much cheaper) and move up from there? Are the same basics still learned well enough to prepare for an equally larger vessel? But what seems to be the next logical jump then? 25'? 30'? 36'? Does it wholly depend on wants/needs and individual ability (budget and skill)? I'm just wondering what "seems right/normal/typical" in the eyes of you experience guys and gals after mastering a 16-22 foot boat, assuming one wanted to eventually have an ocean-going vessel. Again, sorry for the unending questions, and thanks so much for the assistance thus far!

Rideout · Nov 20, 2004

Re: Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

That's a very broad question. But you can easily find an older 24-30 foot boat. Tartan, Alberg, Cal 29, Bristol etc. that is very seaworthy, can be had for under 25K and will handle the bay and comfortably overnight. Three Years of that and you'll get a feel for what you really want

sailor3X7 · Nov 21, 2004

Re: Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

Yoeddie: There was a good article in the Albuquerque Journal a few days ago that I think you will really enjoy reading. I am going to post the firt paragraph below so you can see if you want to read the entire article. If you want to read it all go to: http://www.abqjournal.com/arts/outdoors/257026go11-11-04.htm Thursday, November 11, 2004 Former Landlubbers Share Tale of Their First Sailboat By Art Bouffard For the Journal It was a Sunday morning in March 2004. The Albuquerque Journal classifieds advertised a 22-foot, 1983 McGregor sailboat for sale, at Cochiti Lake. That's where our adventure began. Never did we envision that we might be sailing three months later from Los Angeles to Catalina Island

Edward B. · Nov 22, 2004

Re: Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

Sailor3X7: Thanks for the article, it was a good read! I wonder if they would've tried to make the trip to Catalina in anything less than a 23' vessel...

sailor3X7 · Nov 23, 2004

Re: Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

yoeddie: have you read "Tinkerbelle" by Robert Manry? It's a great book. Manry crossed the Atlantic in his little sailboat. 14 footer as I recall. Not that an Atlantic crossing is recommended in a small boat. And he did a lot of refitting to make it seaworthy for a crossing. But it illustrates that small boats are capable of some pretty serious sailing.

tommays · Nov 26, 2004

Re: Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

yoeddie the smallest boat i have owned is a hobie holder 14 ft and the biggest is a J-24 with a victoria 18 in between when i traded from the Victoria 18 to the J-24 it was a profound change the 18 ft boat cant even begin to handle things that the 24 ft is not even bothered by i cant tell you how many times the wind kicked up in the afternoon and no amount of sail reefing or boat handleing skills made the 18 ft anything but a missery to get home in i bought the J-24 because on one of my many nasty trips home i kept seeing these strange looking boats just power through things with ease that had the 18 ft on the edge of saftey i am not pushing a J-24 as a brand but trying to point out that 18 to 23 ft is to big a size range no matter whos boat you by the bigger boat is going to be able to handle far more weather i have had the J in the ocean off montauk point NY many times and would have never even tryed that with the 18 ft tommays

Edward B. · Nov 29, 2004

Re: Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

Thanks all for the info thus far, I really appreciate it. I've been looking at boats almost non-stop and now I'm wondering about going the route of a used boat instead of new, for obvious reasons. I prefer the notion of a new boat needing nothing at first so I can just sail, but I like the price tags of used boats more...so we'll see. I'm not ready to buy now anyhow, so it's not an issue at the moment, and I'm going to keep reading whatever I can find. Keep it coming! What's the general impression of Precision sailboats here? I've read a lot of good stuff about them and talked to few dealers that say they prefer them over Catalina and Hunter vessels.

Mark 42 · Dec 2, 2004

Re: Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

Go to your local yacht club, and ask about crewing on races. Be honest about your experience level, and if you have a good attitude and are willing to learn you'll get a free sailing education better than at a school.

flashback · Dec 9, 2004

Re: Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

Mark is right! you will learn more about sailing in one race than a week at a school....just be willing to do what you are told and ask questions later

Triton II · Dec 9, 2004

Re: Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

Not on our boat (called Tojo Never Made It to Darwin, it's an 11 metre one design)! You'll learn a lot of choice new words. That's the trouble when you get a bunch of skiff sailors in a 33ft yacht and sail it in the twilight races on Sydney Harbour. LOL.

renegadescarab · Dec 9, 2004

Re: Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

yoeddie- I've been sailing since I was in diapers, and have done the trip to Catalina more times than I can remember. Newport-Avalon=26 miles. Dana Pt.- Avalon =36 Miles. People have surfed boat wakes all the way across. I've seen guys on jetskis do it. But I've been out there and seen it go from DFC (dead flat calm) to 30 knots with six feet of nasty chop in your teeth in a matter of hours. And anyone in a boat smaller than 35 feet was wise to turn tail and run. So size can be irrelevant-It can all be knowledge, fortitude, and determination. It can also be your crew puking their guts out and your wife or girlfriend telling you that they're never setting foot on that damned boat again. (Their words, not mine) When I was 12, my family sailed to Florida from here (So. Cal.) We spent a year doing it in a Tartan 48. On that trip, me met people in boats as small as 24 ft. who had covered that much ground and more. What it boils down to is what sort of creature comforts are you willing to give up? Because on a 24 ft. boat, there aren't a whole lot of them. Probably the best thing to do is get all the experience you can with people who are good- good at the basics, good at piloting, good at showing you how to outfit, plan, prepare for emergencies, who are good at teaching you those things without telling you that their way is the only way to do things. And learn to repair anything-you will need to repair everything at one point or another. So keep that in mind before you get out there in a well-founded boat that you know very well, with spare everythings imaginable, top-notch equipment, crew you can rely upon (and live with), and at least 27-30 feet overall so you aren't living in abject discomfort. And while a Catalina might be a fine boat to learn in, go for something more substantial and well-built when you are ready to do it. Every one of the Ericsons, Catalinas, Odays, etc, I saw on that trip were ready to be deep-sixed because they were falling apart. The whole cruising life has been romanticized beyond belief, when really it can be more like living in a travel trailer that never gets dry. Except the sights and experiences are amazing enough to almost make it all worthwhile. PS-dont be put off by my username-I got on this website looking for info on outboard repair for a speedboat I'm helping repair, but I'll always be a sailor.

jeff_nicholas · Dec 11, 2004

Re: Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

We lived aboard a 27' sloop for 3 years (from New England to the Caribbean). In the early 70's, we had the same dream and questions you have now... we wanted to be in a position to 'do it all', and that attitude meant many, many compromises in our selection of boats/equipment and our schedule. Knowing what I know today, I'd recommend a used easily trailerable sloop rigged cuddy w/ outboard aux. Take it to a small lake and play with it. Next pack it with a porta potty, camp stove, sleeping bag and cooler and spend the night on it - you don't have to leave the dock, or even take it off the trailer for that matter. When you know how to spend nights aboard, graduate to bigger lakes and longer adventures...spend some time on the ICW. You may eventually forget about Catalina or the Bahamas, but you just may develop enough confidence in your little boat and abilities that you decide you're going to do it, and you can under the right conditions. We sailed in the Bahamas w/ 22 foot sailboats; I've made the crossing from Lauderdale to Bimini in my 18' outboard...you only need to know how and when. The smaller the boat you start out with, the easier it will be on you. Outfitting/maintaining it, getting it to the water, getting it on/off the trailer and rigged, docking, anchoring, navigating in tight places or shallow water, running aground - a 12' sailboat would be great but I recommend you bite off just a little more; a cuddy will be a little harder at first, but it will have the potential to carry you farther into your dreams without changing boats (if you have a good sense of adventure). Drop me an 'e' if there's anything else I can do to get you going...it's an adventure you don't want to miss.

renegadescarab · Dec 14, 2004

Re: Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

a 12' sailboat would be great but I recommend you bite off just a little more;

Nick-That's some good advice. Like yourself, I have lived on boats in the 27' range, and it's not unbearable at all. Right now, though, I've simplified-My only boat is a 12' catboat, a Kite class (sort of a Finn trainer), and while putting a porta potty on it is out of the question, it certainly goes nicely with a cooler of beer and a pretty girl for crew. But that notwithstanding, experience is the key. Just get a boat and get out there, because nothing can replace experience. When something potentially dangerous happens, you need to be able to respond almost intuitively, without pondering the question, because there often isn't time for that. And only experience will give you that. Starter wise, in my family it went like this- Sabot first, then Kite, then Lido 14, then Laser, then you're ready for most anything-Snipe, Penguin, FJ, Finn, maybe even 470 if you're into it. And this is while crewing the big boat during races, not just buoy races but offshore-Ensenada, San Clemente Island, around the Coronados, 14 mile bank, Midwinters, you name it. And that's just the racing. Trips to Catalina, coastal cruises, simply mucking about, as someone put it. As Nike says, Just Do It. That's the only way to get the experience. And have fun doing it, or don't do it at all.

jeff_nicholas · Dec 15, 2004

Re: Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

renegadescarab, Our first boat was an 11' Mayflower lateen rig, then a Venture 22 sloop, then crewed on 38' ketch for almost a year, then liveaboard crew on 41' ketch for a spell, then bought a (brand new)Bristol 27 which we lived aboard for 3 years (took delivery at the factory). We went boatless for long while, then bought a 35' trawler - the trawler was very comfortable, but oh so much 'responsibility'. Traded down to a 16' outboard cuddy, then up to an 18' outboard cuddy (to make room for my wife's wheelchair and A/C) and I can truthfully say I've never had more fun on the water than I do now. In fact, we're planning to tow to Prince Rupert next Spring for a cruise up the Inside Passage into Alaska.

nickpokorny · Mar 6, 2005

Re: Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

if your looking for some good books to read read the books by tristen jones he sails somthing like 300,000 miles in small crafts under 37 feet and all kinds of stuff but read the "incredible voyage" by tristen jones its the best book i have ever read

Newbie interested in sailing; LOTS of q's

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