Newbie questions

[mach1219]

Im thinking about getting my first boat, and started doing some research. From reading here, it looks like the bayliner is one of the cheapest brands and a decent boat, so I was looking at them.<br /><br />I cant understand why the I/O is so much cheaper than an O/B. They look better and look more expensive, why are o/b so much more expensive??<br /><br />And why is the 185 $2,500 more than the 175 when its only 8 inches longer? Is 8" worth $2,500 in the world of boats?

 

[Texasmark]

Re: Newbie questions

Bayliner sells quite a few boats in N. Texas and has for many years. I agree that they are not the top end boat and maybe that's what sells them....price.<br /><br />Can't answer your other questions. Would have to see the candidate raising the question.<br /><br />Haven't heard any Bayliner bashing but not sure I'd own one.....I guess I don't particularly like their designer's work.<br /><br />Just my perference.<br /><br />Mark

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Newbie questions

Does the 185 have a V6 engine and the 175 the four-banger. As for I/O vs outboard. Outboards will provide better performance because they are much lighter. I/O's take up a lot of interior space. You need to lay on your belly to work on them whereas you can stand up to work on an outboard. If you are unhappy with I/O performance you are stuck with the entire rig. With an outboard you can trade for a larger engine if needed. Outboards are lighter so the entire boat is lighter -- therefore easier to tow. Maintenance costs for an I/O can be very high. Been there, done that, and I won't go back.

 

[Mischief Managed]

Re: Newbie questions

Bayliner builds the 175 to a price point to get you in the showroom. They probably make very little money on it. They are hoping that while you are there to look at the 175, you'll find the 185 (or something bigger), more to your taste and they'll sell you that at a higher profit margin.

 

[QC]

Re: Newbie questions

MM is right. It is marketing. They charge more for the 185 because they can, and less for the 175 because they have to.<br /><br />A lot of smaller builders have simply stopped building under 20 ft. as they have the brand loyalty built up enough that they don't need a "loss leader" to get you to buy. Why tie your line up building boats with half the margin? You only have to build/sell one to make the $ of two . . .

 

[KCook]

Re: Newbie questions

The guys are perfectly right on the 175 being all about price. Not only is the 185 a little bigger, its appointments are also a real step up. So 175 vs 185 is rather like Kia vs Corolla. Even though both the 175 and 185 are by Bayliner. Put 4 adults in it on a choppy lake and you will really wish you had the 185 instead.<br /><br />Kelly

 

[Mischief Managed]

Re: Newbie questions

I am likely wrong, but I think Bayliner builds the 175 in a factory in Mexico and the 185 in the US. Perhaps both are made in Mexico. I am 99% sure the 175 is made there. That would surely keep the price down since boats are pretty labor intensive to build

 

[mach1219]

Re: Newbie questions

The $2,500 more 185 uses the same standard engine as the 175. The v6 is a $3,000 option.<br /><br />So these bayliner 175's are a good value than, better than the 185 it would seem. I dont need any fancy options.<br /><br />another question, why do these things use carbs? carbs went out in the 80's! They should be fuel injected. Is this another cost saving measure?

 

[craze1cars]

Re: Newbie questions

Welcome to my world....Carbs vs. EFI. Answer: Not enough competition in the marketplace. Volvo/Mercruiser. Nobody else of substance. And BOTH offer the same 1970's technology in their motors. This is a sore spot for me...you gotta go outboard for the best technology. There's more players, therefore better products to choose from. I was SOOO tickled a few years back (1998??) when I saw Toyota was breaking into the marketplace and putting Lexus motors into their Inboard boats. I figured they might start making I/O's and FINALLY there would be someone building quality boats with REFINED motors to give Volvo/Merc a push to start doing some better product development. But unfortunately they didn't make much of a splash and/or profit, and they folded their boat operations somewhere around 2002.<br /><br />However....EFI is coming around in I/O's (only 20 years too late). For all their other blocks over the past several years, they made the giant technological leap forward all the way into the late 1980's by sticking EFI on their old blocks. Only the 3.0 motor is still not available in EFI right now, and it's gotta be just around the corner due to EPA pressure. Every other motor they make is available in EFI, and they are better products, IMO.<br /><br />I'd expect a 3.0 EFI (or maybe a different block...wouldn't that be sweet?!) to replace the carb'd 3.0 within the next couple years. I'd also expect the price of every 3.0 powered boat to increase by about $1,500 to $2,000. Technology comes at a price...gotta choose our poison. Just be aware that when you buy a boat with a 3.0L carb, you're buying the same basic motor that's been in production since the late 60's with only minor upgrades and updates done every few years since then. The motor gets the job done, but don't expect smooth and perfect performance from the base unit. I speak as an owner of one of these fine motors...not bashing. Just sharing the truths. Someone here earlier described it as much like buying a Kia...I'd probably agree with that assessment, except the Kia has EFI...<br /><br />Off my soapbox. Enjoy your new boat! My 3.0L 18 foot runabout has been quite bulletproof and functional. They're fun regardless of their old technology.

 

[KCook]

Re: Newbie questions

Another thread on the entry level boats -<br /><br /> 2004 Bayliner 175....Advice Needed

 

[mach1219]

Re: Newbie questions

i see the injected 4.3 makes like 30 more hp than the carbed version. it is a lot more xpensive also. are all outboards 2 cycle? maybe outbaord is the way to go?<br /><br />Are the outboards fuel injected or carbed as well?

 

[Speedwagon]

Re: Newbie questions

I do believe I've seen EFI outboards that were 4 stroke.<br /><br />And as far as I/O being cheaper than O/B. Well, look at what you are cramming into a tiny little box on a pole, as compared to taking a mass produced for the auto industry block, and modifying it to fit your needs. Car engines are dirt cheap, because they don't need to be compact and lightweight.

 

[KCook]

Re: Newbie questions

Good discussion of the various flavors of outboards -<br /><br /> http://forums.iboats.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=040396

 

[craze1cars]

Re: Newbie questions

Almost ALL outboards have gone EFI on both the 2 strokes and 4 strokes. And most brands offer both 2 and 4 strokes but a few brands are exclusive to one or the other. At this point I'm quite sure 4 stroke outboards outsell the 2 strokes.<br /><br />Pretty sure Evinrude is the only mfr that sells 100% super-clean/EPA approved/smoke-free 2 strokes, and Honda and I think Yamaha sell 100% 4 stroke. Mercury & Suzuki sell BOTH clean 2-strokes and 4 strokes across the HP range. Johnson was all 4 stroke, but I thought they were now defunct...however I see on their site they offer a small line of 2 stroke carb'd motors...these might be the cheapest/oldest tech outboards available but I'm guessing.<br /><br />I don't think there's many carbed outboards available for sale anymore unless they're used, or maybe in the very small HP sizes.<br /><br />Lots of choices in outboards and they're far more advanced than I/O's, but you will have to pay extra for the superior technology. In return you can do less, cheaper, and easier maintenance, lighter weight, better shallow-water capabilities, and have more room inside a similar sized boat. I do believe resale is higher on outboards as well. On the downside, you'll have limited sunbathing/swim platform options, the "look" is not as sleek in some peoples opinion, ski/watersports hookups are sometimes not as clean and convenient, and PRICE. <br /><br />For the size of boat you're considering, I'd give them a serious look but expect some sticker shock.

 

[familylaw]

Re: Newbie questions

FYI, Bayliner just increase their price for the 2006 <br />175 to $11,000. 2004 and 2005 Bayliner 175 was only $9,995. Dealer said that they had to raise their price in order to be competitve.

 

[Twidget]

Re: Newbie questions

"Hecho en Mexico" was stuck on the stern of the 175/185 Bayliners at the FT Worth Boat Show. They tried to hide the stickers behind plants.

 

[murphini]

Re: Newbie questions

My 2 cents...<br />Might want to get a used first boat that is bigger for around the same price. You'll be amazed how much 1 or even 2ft will give you in usability, esp if you have kids, friends, dog(s), relatives or want to carry along coolers, tubes, lifejackets....<br /><br />20' is a good size to start, with 9-10 person capacity.<br /><br />Although I'm ready to get flamed here, it seems like the people who have 18footers are first time buyers who within 1 or 2 years realize they need something bigger, or like my inlaws, people who own a pontoon or some other craft (and live on a lake) and want a little runabout for just the two of them when the weather is perfect. <br /><br />Bayliners aren't all that bad, but look at used V6 or V8 20' + Crownlines, Tahoes, Chapparals, VIPs, Four Winns even 10 years old, and you'll find something much more useable for the same price. You can always buy a used 18 footer with a 3.0 4 cylinder engine from someone who is looking to move up. The paper is full of them.<br /><br />Best news, no boat is a bad boat. You'll have fun with an 18', but if you like it, you'll move up fast to a larger one.