Newbie to I/O, INLINE 6, MERC OUTDRIVE with major oil leaking ?

[Way2cool]

Hi Guys,

This is my first post here.. I just acquired an OLD boat, 197X I presume. It needs some mechanical work and I cant ID the Engine or the Outdrive.


I have 24 photos uploaded here; ImageShack Album - 24 images to assist with my questions.

Question one.. the Inline 6 Starter motor draws 10k amps and barely turns the engine, I'm guessing it's bench test time and possible replacement. I need to ID that engine first!! ..now the question.. to be sure the engine isn't seized, I tried to spin it by hand with the spark plugs out and cant grab it anywhere.. I did loosen the Alternator belt to be sure the Water pump and Alternator spin freely.. check. How do you dry spin these engines?

Question two.. bad oil leak at the outdrive, only when it's lowered.. the oil seems to be pouring from behind the propeller.. between the lower case and the prop.. is that possible? The guy I got it from says 'Oh.. that's black stuff from a deteriorating water pump impeller.. and it's mixing with oil.. a water pump kit fixes that' .. I'm like.. ?what?.. isn't the water pump impeller in the next case up.. not the bottom case?

http://imageshack.us/a/img836/9756/on4a.jpg

I have some other stuff to go over with you guys.. but that can wait till it fires up.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: Newbie to I/O, INLINE 6, MERC OUTDRIVE with major oil leaking ?

Index of /Merc_Schematics/165 GM 250I-L6 1970-1978/2770032_5178958
1970-1978 era. drive is called MC1 gear ratio is 1.65-1. The battery cable cant pass 10,000 amps
Engine is based on the 250 cu in GM inline 6 cylinder 165 hp.this link is view/print only. you should be #1 or #2 manual Boatinfo - The library, containing manuals, brochures and other technical documents from the last hundred years! ,this one for the drive.http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Servmanl/6/6covr3.pdf
start by removing the drive ,shift into fwd, remove 6 nuts,rams, drive should pull off.
spin the motor by removing the spark plugs,spray some engine store/WD 40, etc into the spark plug holes, remove the wires from the + side of the coil first , install a good starter and spin it.
Impeller is in the lower unit on merc`s.
get rid of that rubber fuel line too and the auto fuel pump.right now your diaphram is vented so it works pumping fuel the vent is now directed into the bilge. Should you rupture the diaphram the fuel squirts directly into the bilge making you ONE BIG EXPLOSIVE BOMB. By the way, using parts like that makes your insurance null and void.Marine pumps direct fuel from a rupture thru a tube directly into the carb.

 

[Way2cool]

Re: Newbie to I/O, INLINE 6, MERC OUTDRIVE with major oil leaking ?

Thanks very much !! Now I know what to call it when looking for parts

1970-1978 era. drive is called MC1 gear ratio is 1.65-1. Engine is based on the 250 cu in GM inline 6 cylinder 165 hp

Is this the process for fixing that oil leak? What's the process called so I know what to purchase before hand? Is it like the P.O. mentioned.. 'just replace the impeller with a kit'? I suppose that 'kit' has all the stuff needed to stop oil leaks too?

start by removing the drive ,shift into fwd, remove 6 nuts,rams, drive should pull off.
....
Impeller is in the lower unit on merc`s.

Good advice.. thanks !

get rid of that rubber fuel line too and the auto fuel pump

 

[achris]

Re: Newbie to I/O, INLINE 6, MERC OUTDRIVE with major oil leaking ?

Been through your pictures. The serial number for the drive (on the starboard side of the rocker cover) indicates it as a 1972 vintage. Same as what was in my boat when I first bought it...

Also that distributor cap also looks automotive. You need to change that too.

Chris........

 

[Way2cool]

Re: Newbie to I/O, INLINE 6, MERC OUTDRIVE with major oil leaking ?

NICE !! I tried to find that correlation and failed miserably !

...The serial number for the drive (on the starboard side of the rocker cover) indicates it as a 1972 vintage..

Good to know.. the P.O. swears he only used reputable boat mechanics for everything.. when I first saw it I wondered if someone makes a pulse, halo effect or electronic setup.. to get rid of the points.

Also that distributor cap also looks automotive. You need to change that too.

I'm not interested in restoring it or anything goofy like that.. just watertight and reasonably reliable.

 

[achris]

Re: Newbie to I/O, INLINE 6, MERC OUTDRIVE with major oil leaking ?

NICE !! I tried to find that correlation and failed miserably !

Good to know.. the P.O. swears he only used reputable boat mechanics for everything.. when I first saw it I wondered if someone makes a pulse, halo effect or electronic setup.. to get rid of the points.

I'm not interested in restoring it or anything goofy like that.. just watertight and reasonably reliable.

I'm not referring to any sort of restoration, I'm referring to safety. Automotive caps are vented differently to marine. If the cap is not a marine specific, then you're asking for one of those big bang things Bt Doc is referring to.

To replace the points with an electronic gizmo (and I think it's a good idea)... -> Electronic Conversion Kit - Sierra - iboats

Chris.......

 

[Way2cool]

Re: Newbie to I/O, INLINE 6, MERC OUTDRIVE with major oil leaking ?

Back to Question #2

Question two.. bad oil leak at the outdrive, only when it's lowered.. the oil seems to be pouring from behind the propeller.. between the lower case and the prop.. is that possible? The guy I got it from says 'Oh.. that's black stuff from a deteriorating water pump impeller.. and it's mixing with oil.. a water pump kit fixes that' .. I'm like.. ?what?.. isn't the water pump impeller in the next case up.. not the bottom case?

http://imageshack.us/a/img836/9756/on4a.jpg

Is the oil leaking from the tail when it's lowered a sign of a complete rebuild? What steps should I do before I pull the outdrive? Do I pressure test it first?

The thing is, after reading you advise, and looking further for clarifications, I'm still confused as to why there's oil leaking out, blown seals or what? Do I just start nilly-willy replacing everything? Maybe this is a sign that everything rubber is shot? I dunno.. I'm new to this outdrive stuff. All my experience is in jets or velvet drives from the younger years.

 

[bonzoscott]

Re: Newbie to I/O, INLINE 6, MERC OUTDRIVE with major oil leaking ?

If the lube is coming from behind the prop, thinking prop shaft seal, but maybe not. Take your prop off, clean up the drive real well, lower drive and see where it's leaking. Did you have water in your drive lube? Do you have to run the boat to make it leak of does it just set and leak. Need more info. With age of the boat and unknown history, could be just carbon / exhaust dripping.

 

[ktbarrentine]

Re: Newbie to I/O, INLINE 6, MERC OUTDRIVE with major oil leaking ?

Need to pressure test the drive, for sure. Could be any number of seals leaking (one, or a combination). Most common with your symptom is the shift-shaft bushing seal...but that is just a guess (crystal ball is still in the shop being calibrated). Pressure test (with soapy-water spray bottle) after draining oil will tell all.

 

[Way2cool]

Re: Newbie to I/O, INLINE 6, MERC OUTDRIVE with major oil leaking ?

Thanks guys.. I'll tackle that next.. so far it's not running.. trying to figure out whether the engine or starter is locked up.. pulling the starter is a slow process for an old guy working solo.

Sounds like I should look for a COMPLETE seal and gasket set, water pump rebuild kit, etc. I imagine there's a seal at the top and bottom of every shaft, and gaskets between the cases... better just dive in I guess and come back here if something new pops up.

Thanks again.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Newbie to I/O, INLINE 6, MERC OUTDRIVE with major oil leaking ?

Thanks guys.. I'll tackle that next.. so far it's not running.. trying to figure out whether the engine or starter is locked up.. pulling the starter is a slow process for an old guy working solo.

Sounds like I should look for a COMPLETE seal and gasket set, water pump rebuild kit, etc. I imagine there's a seal at the top and bottom of every shaft, and gaskets between the cases... better just dive in I guess and come back here if something new pops up.

Thanks again.

Ayuh,... Welcome Aboard,... Pull the drive 1st,.... It could very well be Why the motor won't turn over,...

Everything in the drive, But the prop shaft, turns with the motor's crankshaft,...

The starter is held on by 2 bolts, straight up from below, slightly aft,...
If the flywheel cover is Tight, use a thin wall 9/16 socket,...

 

[Way2cool]

Re: Newbie to I/O, INLINE 6, MERC OUTDRIVE with major oil leaking ?

So, I pulled the outdrive to get it out of the way while I resolve my cranking issues.. YIKES!
This thing looks a bit messy at first glance,

Outdrive Removal Album:
ImageShack Album - 20 images

I came across some thick milky white crud clogging up some passage.. I suppose it's a water passage leading up to the engine.. not cool I suspect. Does this look like a bigger problem than just this separated port? Maybe I should be blasting some cleaning solution through the engine too ?

White crud in Port:
http://imageshack.us/a/img4/7005/23p9.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img543/1102/ikrg.jpg

Looking through and into the Bellows, there's allot of grease flying around, is that normal? :
http://imageshack.us/a/img689/628/hmtr.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img845/2433/ulgh.jpg
Maybe a bad seal in there.. or could it be those two "O rings" on the main shaft.. ?

On the workbench, I suppose tomorrow I'll be separating the upper and lower halves to see what else might be going on.

Is there a recommended Gasket / Seal / Water Pump SET that will include everything needed to get this outdrive re-assembled, or do I have to get several 'KITS' to get the job done ? I'd like to get those ordered ASAP.

Thanks again guys.. I'm making pretty good progress on this thing.

 

[achris]

Re: Newbie to I/O, INLINE 6, MERC OUTDRIVE with major oil leaking ?

Before you separate the halves of the drive, put the pressure gauge on it and find out where your leak is.... Makes it a lot easier to fix if you know where it's leaking....

Chris.....

 

[Way2cool]

Re: Newbie to I/O, INLINE 6, MERC OUTDRIVE with major oil leaking ?

Before you separate the halves of the drive, put the pressure gauge on it and find out where your leak is.... Makes it a lot easier to fix if you know where it's leaking....

Chris.....

Thanks everyone, well.. I used 14psi.. I read somewhere 15 was desirable and watched some videos at 10psi,.. so 14 was the max my gauge would allow. Every hour or so I go out there and spin the shafts, work the transmission etc,.. so far nothing's happening.

I don't get it.. when I first lowered the drive after sitting for who knows how long, it pissed ALLOT of heavy, smelly gear oil from behind the Propeller.
<head scratching>


Pressure Test @ 5 min with 14psi:
http://imageshack.us/a/img855/8328/lfgg.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img843/5831/pbo4.jpg

Pressure Test @ 6 hrs, no change:
http://imageshack.us/a/img837/8162/dnem.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img17/2747/i1im.jpg

 

[ktbarrentine]

Re: Newbie to I/O, INLINE 6, MERC OUTDRIVE with major oil leaking ?

You did drain the oil first, right? What was the condition of the oil?

 

[Way2cool]

Re: Newbie to I/O, INLINE 6, MERC OUTDRIVE with major oil leaking ?

You did drain the oil first, right? What was the condition of the oil?

Yes I did, the old oil was full.. some came out the top hole when the drive was upright, and filthy black.. and it looked to be free of water.. looking into the drain pan there were some wierd striations where light reflected off it kinda strange, maybe that was a touch of water... its nine hours now and still holding pressure evenly at 14psi.. wierd.

So, after the customary 24 hours holding pressure.. I still want to seperate the halves and rebuild the water pump.. seal it all back up properly and get it back on he boat.

Did you all have a look at the photos of the grease slinging off the large bearing inside the bellows.. is that normal?

 

[achris]

Re: Newbie to I/O, INLINE 6, MERC OUTDRIVE with major oil leaking ?

Yes I did, the old oil was full.. some came out the top hole when the drive was upright, and filthy black.. and it looked to be free of water.. looking into the drain pan there were some wierd striations where light reflected off it kinda strange, maybe that was a touch of water...

Shiny bits of .... metal! Don't worry, that's sort of normal... The 'dirty black' would worry me. That indicates the prop might be too big (too much pitch) and it's overloading the drive, burning the oil... BTW, when you refill, ONLY use Quicksilver High Performance Gear Lube. It's a bit more expensive, but worth every cent, and then some...

its nine hours now and still holding pressure evenly at 14psi.. wierd.

So, after the customary 24 hours holding pressure..

24 hours!!! I usually do might for 30 minutes (that all that's called for in the book)...

I still want to seperate the halves and rebuild the water pump.. seal it all back up properly and get it back on he boat.

Good choice. Have you seen the video of a pump re-build? Some useful hints on what to look for.

Alpha style water pump service

Did you all have a look at the photos of the grease slinging off the large bearing inside the bellows.. is that normal?

Yep, normal... I usually run a rag around the bearing and clean off the excess, before squeezing some more in via the grease fitting on the starboard side of the gimbal housing...

Chris.....