Newby Rebuild, Ambitious or insane?

[petermarcus]

Re: Newby Rebuild, Ambitious or insane?

I did a bit of research, and I found (of course), a lot of conflicting information.

The US does a Hull Identification Number that's 12 digits, Europe (and the rest of the world) does a CIN (Craft ID Number) that's 14 digits, including a 2-letter country code. After the country code, the first three are supposed to be a manufacturer ID. In your case, that would be MLI.

Here's one site, a US based HIN decoder: http://www.uscgboating.org/recalls/mic1.aspx

It says MLI is Newmax, Inc, out of Spokane, Washington. What I could find through a Google search seems to say that Newmax mainly made pontoon boats. I could be wrong about that, but that's all I could find.

The Manufacturer ID can also be an Importer ID, if a company imports a hull or boat, then makes changes to it. As far as importers go, MLI stands for M.L. Importers, Inc, out of Gloucester, Massachusetts, which is now inconveniently out of business. I couldn't find anything about them other than their location.

What's troubling about the HIN/CIN issue is that the last 4 digits is supposed to be Month/Year of manufacture, -- 1272 would be December 1972. Or, things eventually moved to a letter/year like M76D which stands for "M"odel year 1976, and D for November (oddly). Your last 4 are 728B. B would mean September, so it's possible that 728B is September 1972 (maybe September 8th?) except that it (1) breaks the normal format, and (2) the laws/guidelines about HIN/CIN didn't really kick in until November of 1972 anyway.

That JP number -- was it on the transom, or inside the boat? The HIN guidelines say it should be on the starboard side of the transom, but then again, your boat may older than the guidelines. The guidelines also say the HIN should be in another location inside your boat, but that location is a secret and is usually only given to law enforcement if they're trying to trace a stolen boat. Something like under a seat or on the inside of the cap under the anchor locker.

About your stringer question:

The idea of stringers, especially with an I/O, is that the thrust from the prop and outdrive press mainly against the transom of your boat (there's some distribution through the bell housing to the engine to the engine mounts, but it's mainly through the transom). The transom absorbs all of that thrust balanced against the weight of your boat, and the friction of the water. The transom alone can't support those forces, so the whole concept of stringers is that they are butted against the transom and bonded to the hull so the thrust forces are spread out through the bottom of the hull. If you tipped your boat up so it's resting on the transom, it's similar to a house. The transom is the foundation and the stringers are the load bearing walls.

So, there's no theoretical problem with hollow stringers if that hollowness is supported by something load-bearing, like a thick, strong fiberglass -- similar to commercial structures where the 2x4 studs might actually be aluminum, but in an I-beam kinda shape where the forces are reinforced. If enough quality fiberglass surrounds cotton-candy as a support until the fiberglass sets, that should be fine. In reality, many stringers are something structural like plywood or fir or oak, with the glass as additional (or primary) support, but also a (hopefully) waterproofing agent to keep the core solid. And, if that inner core material catches a fungus and rots, then it's going to sound hollow and you may wonder if it was designed to be hollow, or if it became that way. If you drill into it and get rotten wood, then you know, and welcome to the club!

Finally, I'm really interested in this project. I like the bigger boats -- I'm only restoring a 19' because that's what happened to have fallen in my lap for virtually nothing. I'd love a crack at your 25 footer. Also, you have an interesting puzzle and you're in an interesting location. I'm really looking forward to you digging into your project and documenting it for the rest of us. Take a lot of pics and keep posting!

 

[Krfoote]

Re: Newby Rebuild, Ambitious or insane?

Thanks for the response,

Strangely enough the HID or whatever it is called is nowhere on the transom or anywhere i can find other than the one i posted. it is on the main deck right below the captains chair. Whats even more frustrating is that according to that it is a yamaha but as far as i can tell, yamaha did not make boats (or at least any model resembling it) Prior to 1990, so nothing about this project makes sense.

I will keep you informed, this is my first project and i have high hopes and big ambition but i am going to need A LOT of guidance and input! I am going tonight to start taking some more old wood and deck off it and hope to get a better look at the Stringers, I have high hopes that they will be ok I cant Find ANY cracks or anything that would have let in moisture and Most of the wood i have found so far has been ok with the exception of some that was exposed to rain over the past few years.

It has had some work done in the past so it might be that its a custom boat made with parts from an older boat and they just havent gotten caught for not having the HIN But i am not gonna wait to get started ... i am about to just give up and remodel the whole thing, take the yamaha off it, and register it as a custom boat- since apparantly it doesnt formaly exist anyway.

 

[oops!]

Re: Newby Rebuild, Ambitious or insane?

hi bud......i too am crazy and insane.....and i like it that way.

not here to talk you out of any thing. im here to cheer you on and help.....but there are things you have to know so that you are prepared.

The engines I am not to worried about

BE WORRIED...BE VERY WORRIED....the motors and drives are the money pit. getting parts in okinawa for gm motors never mind the mainifolds is going to be tough. if those engines and drives are shot its 6 grand a side and thats on the cheap. i allready know that the mainfolds are toast and they are around 600 a pop and lets not get into the bellows/ gymball or shift boot that are rotten

If i eventually discover the holy grail in the form of an owners manual or some kind of scematics

you wont!....there isnt any.
even if you found an owners manual it would just be how to start the motor and lift the drives for trailering.

i know that you are searching for info on the hin, but all that will tell you is who built it and when, and chances are they are out of business. and the internet wasnt around when they were cooking boats. so all you might get is a area where it was made.

but the good news is that all boats are built the same.....from mega yachts to tin row boats.....they are all basically the same.

i can also tell you that your boat was probably designed on the back of a cocktail napkin on friday night at a bar. so when stuck....remember its really simple.

your boat is a fiberglass hull that the exterior is covered in gellcoat. you will have a fiberglass incased wooden transom and stringers.

the really great news is that there aint nuthin on that boat that scares us here at iboats.

one thing that you must do......is read...read...read. read the entire completed projects forum.....redfurys project. and a guy called legoman.....he is doing a boat with twins similar to yours.
the link in my signature will help you HUGE. as you will see what is in your boat when its gutted.
these threads here at iboats are the closest you will get to a holy grail....and thats pretty darn close

the steps you must take first are....

determine the running condition of the motors/drives. (if these are toast, you might find the cost too much to continue the project)

if you plan to continue....
determine extent of rot including any wet foam and the transom.

the hull can be rebuilt for around 2 grand, and 200 man hours. do the better condition it is...the better off you are.

transom rot/deck rot including the stringers...
pull motors and drives.....everything...take pictures...lots of pictures of everything.

get in and start ripping (after you have read what to rip out and what not.....but (while leaving the hull totally intact, rip out every inch of wet wood.

grind/scuff inner hull to accept the new glass.

build/install new transom and stringers. glass all of it.....gellcoat it. re foam if you want and replace the deck.

drop in new motor/drives...do your hookups.
add lip stick to the boat and go fishin!

dont expect to see the water for some time...this aint gonna happen tommorow......'ell its going to take your wood 2 weeks to dry just to take resin!

im right behind you on this....ill help all i can.
good luck....and have fun!

cheers
oops

 

[Krfoote]

Re: Newby Rebuild, Ambitious or insane?

OOPS!
Thanks for the post, that is the kinda Stuff i want to hear!! I actually decided a few weeks ago to go forward and i am in it now so there is no turning back. I don't WANT to spend money on new engines but it is what it is.

I knew that it wasn't going to be free and i didn't expect i could drink beer and laugh while my boat magically fixed itself, the only thing that worries me is that i don't always know what i am doing in regards to boats, but i have learned A LOT in the month that i have been here so i will keep it and keep everyone posted.

So far the deck in the Cabin needs replaced, One of the stringers (i Guess that's what it is) directly ABOVE the engines is completely rotted out because there is a crack in the fiberglass that let rain directly on it, that's also why the manifolds are rusted, I think the Main deck will need some work and i have found 2 soft spots in the skin on the Bow of the boat that i will need to address.

The Rest of the wood in the Cabin is in great condition, and i am thinking positively about the transom, but i have a feeling at least part of one of the stringers will need some work.

If i only have a section of stringer that needs work i am sure its best to replace the whole thing but is it necessary? or can i just replace the one section?


I am headed over to continue the Evaluation in a few minutes and ill take more pictures and keep everyone posted.

 

[redfury]

Re: Newby Rebuild, Ambitious or insane?

Krfoote, there are very few of us here that started out knowing what to do when starting our projects. You are in the exact same kettle of water like the rest of us lobsters, swimming around not realizing that the water is heating up beneath us The longer you swim around, the smarter you get though, and some of us figured out that you can actually crawl out of this pot and enjoy life on the outside!

<-----Some of us just take longer, and some of us like to stick around in the pot and get all chatty with the others.

I'd think about working the boat incrementally, remove and replace one stringer at a time. Keeps projects easier to manage. Some of us don't have the large blocks of free time to do the work and have to, as I like to say, "eat this elephant one bite at a time".

Unless of course, you are beast like Oops! who seems to never run out of steam as long as the water tanks are being refilled with Corona's, the man doesn't stop!

 

[Krfoote]

structural question?

structural question?

Thanks for the help and advice, I just got back From Deck evaluation and i have some Good new and some not so good news. however good news usualy leads to some REALLY bad news down the line so ill brace myself- Anyway,

Good news, The deck is not nearly as bad as i thought I need to replace the ply wood and i will probably do the support beams as well and i am sure there is a little more that i havent gotten to yet but all in all i am not nearly as bad off as i was expecting to be. Further good news, I am fairly certain my stringers are still good, However i am going to drill just in case to make sure.

Bad news is kind of complicated, most of the rot seems to be at the back end of the boat, which does not bode well for the transom. So far what has me stumped is the firewall or whatever it is called that separates that big gas tank (also good news, that thing seems prety large) is rotten so thats gonna have to come out, However a structural Question that has me puzzled is that the stringers end right there. That separates the Tank from the engine compartment but there are no stringers in the engine compartment so my questions is (and this sounds stupid even as i am asking it) Is this a second transom or is this a common design?

I know there is wood or something in the transom at the back of the boat because the swim deck and the outdrives are attached somehow but I am kind of scratching my head on this one.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Newby Rebuild, Ambitious or insane?

Two possibilities come to mind.

First, the "stringers" in the engine compartment could be the motor mounts. Typically these are shorter than the rest of the stringers and have additional structure on top/around them to mount the motors.

Alternatively, some makes of boats (sea ray in particular) didn't run the stringers back to the transom in one piece. Rather, they ran them back to the bulkhead in front of the motor, then put two or more "stringers" outboard of the motor on each side to transfer the force from the transom to the main stringers. Your boat maker may have done something similar. Have you pulled the deck up to the sides of the engine area yet?

Erik

 

[oops!]

Re: Newby Rebuild, Ambitious or insane?

HI ERIK !

what erik said is exactally true.

once you start ripping the boat you will understand its design. remember this is simple stuff.

dont get caught up thinking about things, (you can loose sleep for a week, then find it was nothing) the answers will come when you roll up your sleeves and start ripping

 

[dls322]

Re: Newby Rebuild, Ambitious or insane?

Thats a big gas tank!!

Good luck with your project!

Dumb question.....does it freeze where you are? Just something to take into consideration if it was winterized, and you said rain water was leaking in.

 

[Krfoote]

Re: Newby Rebuild, Ambitious or insane?

Derek, Oops- Thanks for the info, ill focus on the back end tonight if i get a chance and see exactly what is going on back there and stop overthinking things....

DLS,
Ya i was shocked when i opened that up and saw that thing, the range just got extended a lot farther than i was expecting. However supposedly there is a freshwater tank as well which i havent found yet, it seems like putting it under the gas tank would be kind of stupid and a safety and health hazard, but i honestly have no idea where else it would be.

Ill keep ripping tonight and see what i can find, so far i have been pleasantly surprised.

Oh YA,

and no it doesnt freeze here, its gets a little cool in the winter time but its semi tropical here so rain is common, freezing is not.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Newby Rebuild, Ambitious or insane?

HI ERIK !

dont get caught up thinking about things, (you can loose sleep for a week, then find it was nothing) the answers will come when you roll up your sleeves and start ripping

A true statement... sometimes you spend hours agonizing over how to proceed, then once you've finally decided you get working on it... and realize you have to do it completely different anyway

Hi, Oops! Nice to see you.... I'm still on occasionally, been diving a lot and working on the boat now and then... summer is still in full swing

Erik

 

[oops!]

Re: Newby Rebuild, Ambitious or insane?

there is a freshwater tank as well which i havent found yet,

follow the hose from the sink or the shower.

 

[Krfoote]

Great news.... I think......

Great news.... I think......

I drilled into the stringer in the bow of the boat to check the wood, and i was very worried at first, with the look of the stringers. I went in low on the stringer to check and The drill went completely through BOTH sides of the Glass, I expected to find some kind of wood or something but it was Completely empty, no rotten wood, no dust or dead animals or anything... Just AIR.

Fearing the rot or something had completely destroyed the wood i moved down the stringer to another spot and the same thing happened in 2 different spots... 2 holes completely throught the stringer and not even a splinter of wood. So on a hunch i tried drilling higher up and in two spots i found something a little different- Dry and completely preserved wood, it if it had been installed this morning, completely dry and very solid.

I still need to check the transom and bulkheads as well as the engine mounts but i now understand the structure of the boat and i am even more excited because i think the majority of what i need to do is gonna be remodeling the cabin and replacing the deck....

However, (Pause for Effect) the stringer situation seems odd, I am new to this but it appears they ran a board likely 1x2 or maybe 3 from the bow to the stern about 15 inches above the skin of the boat and then glassed over it from 18 inches to the skin on the floor.

I am still confident that i am on the right track however depending on the input from everyone here I might have a very good month....

I have 3 options that i can think of-
1. I can just assume that it was designed that way and just check the rest of the stringers and transom to make sure they are still ok...

2. I can saw a hole in the stringer to get a better look and confirm that was intentional (i can always glass it over again).

3. I Can pump it full of sea cast or something to fill the void (but i dont know if that would affect anything if it was designed that way).

Suggestions/guidance?

 

[redfury]

Re: Newby Rebuild, Ambitious or insane?

Seems to me the manufacturer made up forms for the stringers and bedded wood to install hardware to, and installed them using fiberglass as the support. I'd say you are one lucky guy to not have to mess with them at all.

This would be one of those times for a snake camera, so you could verify that that is what they are, but I'd bet that you have fiberglass stringers with essentially a furring strip for screws and staples to grip into.

 

[Krfoote]

Re: Newby Rebuild, Ambitious or insane?

That is exactly what I was thinking, and I am doing cartwheels right now cause I am so glad I might not have to that!!!!

However all good things come to an end as I am fairly certain I am going to have replace at least 1 bulkhead....

 

[Krfoote]

Wtf?

Wtf?

Ok,

I have to remove a few pieces of wood that apparantly serve no importance other than to **** me off....(Yes i know thats probably not true but I am irritated). Anyway, The wood veneer paneling that is only slightly thicker than cardboard on one wall and for some reason was Glassed into the Floor, and a divider in the cabin between the tables and the bed in the Bow... i suppose i am going to have to cut them out so i can replace them but i dont want to do that if there is another option (and no leaving them in is NOT an option- they look like Shrek Puked on a mushroom and they used the chunks of mushroom to paint the cabin in my boat).

So my question is, are there any specific tools i should use to do this or can i just go Texas chainsaw on this thing? I would prefer to just use a crowbat and a chisel or something but i want to do it as efficiently as possible.

 

[Krfoote]

Re: Newby Rebuild, Ambitious or insane?

OK i have pulled out the entire cabin and am about to start putting it back together. Everything was in good shape and no damage except the Floor which i am going to have to completely replace. Stringers are hollow Fiberglass except for a small strip of wood at the very top to mount stuff on.

However in the very bottom stringer where the Floor had the worst rot there are a few holes (see pictures below) I dont know if this is where had drilled the floor down into the stringer or what but i am not sure what to do about this. The stringer is still very strong but i want to make any repairs Now rather than have to pull it up and do it again. Is there a Putty or Epoxy i can just put in there to fill the holes and correct the Cracks? I am prepared to remove the cracks and holes and reglass over them If that is the Most effective and efficient way but if there is a simpler way i would prefer that. Any suggestions?

And one other thing- The main deck is good except for the section shown below, the half of the Back crossbeam and the back 1/3 of the one running up the deck are bad, Is it Possible to Replace JUST those sections without removing the WHole Floor, Or is that a bad idea?