NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

[bluebrownie]

ok...posted last week.... impellar went on my 1990 90hp force....cooked the head gasket... replaced thermostate, impellar, and just finished putting new head gasket.... tried to check compression and motor wont' turn over....

when i turn the key, i get a "click".....not repeating clicks...just one for each time i engage the key.... any ideas? i changed the battery to another one...fully charged...same thing....

any ideas would be great
tx

 

[ezez]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

ok...posted last week.... impellar went on my 1990 90hp force....cooked the head gasket... replaced thermostate, impellar, and just finished putting new head gasket.... tried to check compression and motor wont' turn over....

when i turn the key, i get a "click".....not repeating clicks...just one for each time i engage the key.... any ideas? i changed the battery to another one...fully charged...same thing....

any ideas would be great
tx

You may have a starter issue. If you are getting a click it typically means the starter relay is working but not always. I would test the voltage post relay to ensure it was opening and closing correctly. Than if it is you need to test the starter with direct power to see if it is cooked. There is also the neutral safety switch so, make sure it is wired correctly and is engaged correctly. ( I don't think you would get the click (which I assume is the starter relay) if this was the problem though) HTH

 

[raekmike]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

With your motor cover off...does the starter gear go up and engage the flywheel? Does the flywheel turn if the gear goes up? If the starter goes up and tries to turn the flywheel but the flywheel won't turn then you get one click. If this is the case you may want to pull the plugs and see if you can turn the flywheel to ensure the motor isn't seized...

 

[bluebrownie]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

when i turen the ignition, the starter gear does NOT pop up....i can manually turn the fly wheel and pistons move freely.... any thoughts? how do i test the starter....newbie here...so if you could walk me through it... i'd be really greatful... i have been able to change the impeller, thermostat and head gaskete....so hopfully i can tackle this one....
tx

 

[raekmike]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

O.K. that is good...sounds like your just gonna need a new starter. Call around to some part stores. they may be able to bench test it. but your prolly just gonna need a new one..

 

[bluebrownie]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

ok.... i probably didn't do this right, but i took the starter out....ran a pos and neg to it and it ran fine.....the "clicking sound" sounds like its coming from the starter relay?????? is that possible.... any more thoughts?

 

[raekmike]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

yup..totally possible that it gets the signal and tries to relay it but doesn't make the connection. it just clicks..or sticks..instead of "relaying" the voltage to the starter. sounds like you troubleshot it perfectly.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

Double check your battery cable connections. Check the positive battery cable connections on the starter solenoid. Also check the negative battery connection where it is bolted to the engine block. Poor connections at any of these points will not allow enough current to flow to the starter for it to engage.

 

[bluebrownie]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

ok...here's a good one...as i said in my first post... my head gasket got cooked...impellar went, so did thermosat. so this newbie has worked hard , albeit slooooowwww to replace all of thsoe things.... HOPING THAT I ENDIED UP WITH GOOD COMPRESSION....and hoping to avoid the inevitable "cooked engine"..... so as i finally get it all done... SOB doesn't turn over....UGH!!!!!
my bubble burst.... What i was trying to do is get a compression test today when i couldn't turn the motor over.....might be time to take it to the marine repair shop...UGH!!!! again.... but...one last thing.... is there a way to "jump" the starter at least briefly to test my compression....cuz if i don't have compression... i might be partsing this motor out and i wojn't bring it to a marine shop....BUT....IF i do have compression... i would then purue the electrical issues with the starter relay or at least having a pro diagnos it....Can someone tell me the right way to jump a starter....keeping it very simple....as i am a self-proclaimed idiot....
tx for allllll of your patience and support

 

[bluebrownie]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

tx....i checked those connections and they were all REALLY tight.....should i losen them and retighten? i am really trying to get this starter working to do a compression test on the cylindars to really see if i solved my original problem..... god i wish i were more handy with this stuff, but i am learning....
tx for alll your posts, you have been very helpful....as an aside, you gave me the torque settings...the other night... went t o my local mechanic buddy, he lent me his $500 computerized torque wrench....to put the head back on....idiot proof.... but thanx again

 

[john from md]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

Just because a wire lug is on tight does not mean that you have a good electrical connection. Corrosion causes high resistance, even a little bit of it.

If you have jumper wires, try this.

Take the negative (black) wire and connect it between the battery and the nut on the side of the upper starter mount. Make sure it stays clear of the flywheel.
Next, connect the red wire to the battery and touch it to the forwardmost stud on the solinoid. The starter should spin up.

If it does not, take the red wire and touch the stud on either the side or bottom (depends on model) of the starter. Again starter should spin up.

If starter does not spin up in either senario, your battery is suspect.

If it turns up on the second test, your solinoid is suspect.

Let us know what happens.

John

 

[steelespike]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

Take a GOOD battery.Use GOOD jumper cables.Connect the positive to the battery positive and to the big electric stud on the starter.Be sure it only touches the stud doesn't get against the housing or stray motor parts.Then connect the negative jumper to the neg. battery terminal. Then carefully touch the other end to the motor block away from the carbs and electronics.
There will be sparks and a good strarter will run.

 

[bluebrownie]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

ok...i did the jump test..... plenty of sparks..... but the starter did spin..... but had trouble jumping up to engage the fly wheel.... and when it did pop up, it labored turing the flywheel.... i just checked my battery, which was down to 50% charge....so i don't know if it just wasn't a strong enough battery, starter problems, or questioning the flywheel moving slowly...(though it doesn't seem like its any harder to turn by hand than before my head gasket burned up.... thoughts?

 

[john from md]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

Pull the plugs and ground the shells. After you charge your battery, engage the starter and see how it spins. It should be going pretty fast if the battery is up.

This also gives you the opportunity to watch how well your plugs are sparking.

John

 

[bluebrownie]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

update....when i put the pos. on the forward nut on the starter relay...didin't turn over.....so it seeems like it's got to be the solenoid....here's my other problem.... with a full charged battery... when i put the positive on the nut on the starter .... it spun, but didn't seem to turn the flywheel so strongly.....so....not sure if i have only solenoid problem....or bad starter...OR.... my biggest concern may come to pass....when i over heated...did i fry the head...? but i can turn it...by hand, and it seems like it turns a forcefully as before the overheat..... maybe starter is just weaK? coupled with a solenoid issue.....God , i am beginning to hatte boating....
comments/suggestions...?

 

[john from md]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

Have you taken your battery for testing? Even new batteries have been know to fail in a few months. Before you go nuts, have it checked. Walmart, Pepboys, Sams Club will all do it for free.

If your solinoid is bad, they only cost about $20 or so.

John

 

[bluebrownie]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

is a solenoid part specific to the motor...i have read people going to radio shack and buying one...is that accurate????
also, i am charging another battery right now....i willl see if there is any difference....lets say for a second that the second battery doesn't mover the fly any faster..... would you suspect taht a larger problem has to do with my head over heating?????

tx again so much for all your help

 

[pnwboat]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

Radio Shack does not sell solenoids for this application. You may be referring to the rectifier which they do sell at a substantial cost savings compared to a Marine parts store.

If the second battery doesn't make any difference and connections are good, I would suspect the starter, not the motor itself. Take the spark plugs out and turn the motor over with the throttle control in neutral. If you are able to turn it over and resistance stays the same through out one rotation, the motor is probably OK.

 

[john from md]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

I have many years of training and experience with all types of batteries. Without doing a load test and hydrometer test, you can't be sure that your battery has the amperage necessary to turn the starter fast enough.

As to buying a solinoid, I don't know if Radio Shack has them. I think you can get a Sierra for about $20 on line.

I suppose you could overheat an engine enough to warp it. I haven't see it done though.

John

 

[bluebrownie]

Re: NIGHTMARE CONTINUES...any ideas?

ok....here's the latest.... my neighbor who is a boat guy....came over and we took out the starter and put in another one.... an old one from this boat.... turned over reasonabley well...BUT when we put the plugs in.... it labored bigtime to turn the flywheel...... my compreession gauge is broke...go figure...so i can't check my compression after replacing the head gasket....BUT as i said, when the starter was engaged with the plugs out, it turned the flywheel pretty good, THOUGH i 'd think it might have done better turning..... so i am thinking i got a starter that is going bad....does that make sense....plus it wass REALLY REALLY HOT....laboring over turning the fly...is that sypmtomatic of a weakenin g starter or something to do with my head gasket, compression etc...? thanks....
both batteries i have tried have 100% charges..... so i am pretty confident that the batteries are solid..... tx