NMMA's new FC-W explained

[TheOilDoc]

As more oil related posts begin to pop up again, I thought members might like to know that the National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA) has included detailed and somewhat technical explanations of the new FC-W oil certification program at their web site:<br /><br /> http://www.nmma.org/certification/local/downloads/documents/FCW_TestManualRevOct.pdf <br /><br /> http://www.nmma.org/certification/local/downloads/documents/FC-W_PAS-Rev_Oct.pdf <br /><br /><br />This information supports the fact that marine oils must meet different and more demanding performance criteria than automotive oils. Of interest is the salt fog test, rust test, and fuel dilution test. Some testing echoes the API, but other criteria for foaming, aeration, and high temperature shear viscosity, etc. have been stepped up a notch. <br /><br />It appears Southwest Research Institute and Perkin Elmer Automotive Research will be doing the testing and evaluation. An actual Yamaha 115 4-cycle outboard (6000 RPM) is used as the standardized test engine (the NMMA has verified that the FC-W certification applies to all marine 4 cycle engines, including inboards and stern drives). <br /><br />The performance of the oil will be determined, in part, by measuring actual wear of engine parts such as the cam, pistons, connecting rod, cylinders, main bearings, crankshaft, and so on. Southwest Research has provided TC-W3 oil testing for the NMMA in the past.<br /><br />The NMMA has made it clear that test results are owned by their Office of Test Data Administration (OTDA) and can not be divulged or discussed without the sponsor's expressed written permission.<br /><br />It appears the NMMA has made a great effort in making sure we are provided the best oils for marine use, and that we can buy those oils with confidence.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: NMMA's new FC-W explained

Oh sure, another excuse to sell the same oil for more money, just because it says Marine on the bottle. <br /><br />All kidding aside, thanks for the info. Shows that boat motors ain't car motors. I mean how often do you run your vehicle up to redline and keep it there? That and the juxtaposed elements they're exposed to. Gotta have special stuff for special needs. Otherwise something's gonna break.<br /><br />Now at the risk of opening a can of worms, what are your feelings about using synthetics until the new oils start hitting the shelves? Do you think regular car oil is up to the task til then?

 

[seahorse5]

Re: NMMA's new FC-W explained

Trailer Boats magazine recently had an article and test results of "expensive" 4-stroke outboard oils compared to "cheap" car oils. Contrary to popular opinion, the synthetics protected against rust better than most of the specialty oils.

 

[Buttanic]

Re: NMMA's new FC-W explained

I just dis-assembled my old racing engine that had been stored outside under a cover for 3 years. When I was racing this engine I used Mobil 1 15-50 in it. I found no rust at all in it. It looked just like the day I assembled it.

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: NMMA's new FC-W explained

It is important to understand that FC-W oils will undergo actual performance bench testing in a marine engine under marine conditions. <br /><br />For example: The oil will be subject to engine part wear examination after 100 hours of endurance testing in a marine engine that operates at 6000 rpm while at 7-15% fuel dilution. 10 of these hours will be at continuous wide-open throttle. The oil must sufficiently maintain its shear properties. The oil will also undergo the new corrosion salt-fog test. These are things your automotive oils won't see. <br /><br />The NMMA must feel that modern marine engines are more demanding of oil. They must feel automotive oils are inadequate, or at least that they don't maximize marine engine protection. Otherwise they would've simply adopted the API's current oil categories.<br /><br />There are probably some current automotive oils that meet the rigors of the FC-W. Without the testing and certification, we do not know what those oils are.<br /><br />The fact an oil is synthetic does not automatically make it best for marine applications. A synthetic oil without the right blend of additives necessary for marine environments may perform worse than a non-synthetic oil specifically made for marine environments.<br /><br />Member Buttanic: Mobil automotive oil is good. But Mobil makes oil specifically for marine use (Mobilgard). You may have had different results with your engine if it had been used on the water ingesting salt mist and then covered in a confined engine hold in the harbor.

 

[Buttanic]

Re: NMMA's new FC-W explained

Here is my problem with a lot of products that are labled "marine". In some cases the differences are obivous to the eye, either externally or upon disassembly but some are not. When they are not how do I know that it is not the same product sold for general use and that other than having been tested to meet marine specs and so labled there is no difference. There is a difference between testing a product to see if it meets a certain spec and labeling that it has and manufacturing a product to specifically meet a certain spec. 35 years boat experience both operating and maintaining them I found that in many cases the main difference is in the testing and labeling not the product.

 

[BillP]

Re: NMMA's new FC-W explained

OilDoc,<br />Thanks for posting the info. I just follow the mfgs suggested specs and don't worry about it. My motors always do ok and live long. <br /><br />I also think synthetics rely more on additives for corrosion prevention than dino or bean oils do. When using synthetic VS castor lube in rc planes the synthetics ALWAYS rust bearing quickly and badly. Castor doesn't. I'm guessing synthetics for models have zero additives for corrosion. My gut feeling is "marine" means more about corrosion than lubrication.

 

[CTD]

Re: NMMA's new FC-W explained

I wonder if the Yamaha will take 10 hours at 6000 rpm. I'll feel much more comfortable about 4 strokes if it does.

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: NMMA's new FC-W explained

Originally posted by CTD:<br /><br />I wonder if the Yamaha will take 10 hours at 6000 rpm. I'll feel much more comfortable about 4 strokes if it does.

These engines typically run hundreds, if not thousands of hours at maximum throttle. Much of it continuously (I have a 4 cycle Suzuki 50 that has over 500 hours operating at 6500 rpm - and going strong).<br /><br />The new FC-W certification will set apart automotive oils from marine oils. Consumers will no longer have to guess if their automotive oil is up to task for marine use, or if it is providing the best protection.<br /><br />Member Buttanic: It is reasonable to assume that some quality automotive oils will meet the FC-W requirements and be labeled FC-W along with their API classification. Certainly a FC-W label will give consumers confidence that the oil will meet the unique needs of marine use.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: NMMA's new FC-W explained

One of the underlying reasons for the NMMA to come out with a special classification of marine 4-stroke oils is that the upcoming GF-4 automotive oils will have a lot less anti-wear and anti-corrosion additives since the EPA wants Phosphorous amounts lowered. They want the catalytic converter on cars to run for more than 100,000 miles and they feel that Phosphorous in the ZDDP anti-wear additive is to blame. Testing by different automotive companies give different results.<br /><br />Also auto oils certified by API are not subject to fuel dilution testing or anti-rust testing.<br /><br />Even the oil companies are unsure if the new EPA approved GF-4 oils will protect older car motors and there is talk of not having the new stuff compatible with older engines. <br /><br />Since outboards have completely different operating rpms and different environments, the NMMA made up their own tests that give "real life" conditions to the subject oils.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: NMMA's new FC-W explained

Getting off the subject a bit, how do you pronounce NMMA? N M M A or enema?

 

[seahorse5]

Re: NMMA's new FC-W explained

Most of us in the business pronounce it enema!!!