No low idle on Force 40

pnwboat

Rear Admiral
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Oct 8, 2007
Messages
4,251
Re: No low idle on Force 40

Yes that's normal. I believe that's a vent for the fuel bowl to maintain the same atmospheric pressure inside the fuel bowl as outside.

It's also a good visual indicator when the needle valve is not sealing correctly. Fuel will leak out of that hole.
 

The Mutt

Cadet
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
16
Re: No low idle on Force 40

I worked out that the hole wasn't my problem, I put some duck tape over it and started the motor.

The Enrichment solenoid works fine and the Reed Valve Assembly is clean with no marks, bends or cracks.

I restarted every test again to confirm that I did them right the first time.

Spark plugs - clean, new no burns, etc.
Vacuum lines and fuel lines - no splits or cracks, connected correctly.
Re-cleaned the Carb passageways with Carb cleaner.
Confirmed that the Carb is connected to the motor correctly with no air leaks.
I refiled the fuel tank with (Premium Unleaded) and used a new bottle of 2 Stroke oil (25:1), no unwanted residue inside the fuel tank.

NOTE: I have tried a 50:1 mix with the same results.

Does anyone know what the timing should be, I can then set the upper piston to TDC and check the timing with the timing light, might as well be pedantic.

Glenn
 

john from md

Commander
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Apr 13, 2008
Messages
2,184
Re: No low idle on Force 40

Glen,

Forget what you know about timing engines, it won't work here. The safest way to time these engines is using the starter motor, that's right, you won't time it running.

First, you have to see what kind of timing marks you have. These engines come with all kinds. Look on the vertical surface of the flywheel for the marks. Sometimes, you have a scale like a car and then other times you may have just two marks or four marks. Let us know what you have and we will tell you what is what.

The static timing for these engines is 32BTDC. I recommend using 30BTDC due to the makeup of the gasoline which is not the same as when the engine was built. Why chance detonation?

The tools needed for the job are:

1. A basic timing light. If you have the advance type, set the advance to zero.
2. A jumper wire to jumper the neutral safety switch so that you can turn the engine with the trottle at WOT
3. A push button remote starter switch.

The procedure is as follows:

Disconnect and remove the plugs. VERY IMPORTANT - ground plugs so you don't damage the CDI module.
Mark the timing marks with chalk so you can see them better. The fixed mark should be at six o'clock under the flywheel as you are looking at the engine.
Disconnect the fuel line if possible or turn off the fuel.
Hook up the safety switch jumper, solinoid jumper and timing light to the upper cylinder wire.

Move the trottle to WOT.
WARNING: DON'T WEAR LOOSE CLOTHING OR JEWELRY AROUND THE OPEN ENGINE.

NOTE: When looking at the timing marks, the furthest mark to your right will be TDC.

Engage the starter and aim the light and record the findings. For a starter run cycle, I use one minute on, five minutes off for the first two cycles. If you need more, increase the off interval to 15 minutes so you don't damage the starter.

For adjusting the timing, it would help if you could send me a couple of pics of both sides and the front of your engine. Manuals give lousy pictures.

John
 

The Mutt

Cadet
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
16
Re: No low idle on Force 40

G'Day John

Sounds like a 2 stroke is a lot like the diesel we put in our Range Rover, remove all access ports and turn the motor until the marks line up, if all the marks don,t line up the injector pump has been put in wrong, or the cam, or the ...

Here are the pis as requested, the timing marks appear to be on the front of the motor, the fixed mark is on the top of the Reed Assembly housing, the flywheel has the numbers - 0 to 40 going to the Left, 0 - 20 going to the right.

Front
Force40TimingMarks.jpg


Right side
Force40Right.jpg


Left side
Force40Left.jpg


Rear
Force40Rear.jpg


My timing light is basic.

2. A jumper wire to jumper the neutral safety switch so that you can turn the engine with the trottle at WOT


Is the neutral safety switch electrical or mechanical?

Disconnect and remove the plugs. VERY IMPORTANT - ground plugs


Ground to the batteries negative or individually cover to isolate from everything else?

Hook up the safety switch jumper, solinoid jumper and timing light to the upper cylinder wire.


So I follow the upper spark plug lead back to it's electronic controller, upper left on the rear of the motor.

If the photos don't show enough detail the full size pics are on our web site.

Timing Marks
http://www.devinetemptations.com/Force40TimingMarks_lrg.JPG
Left
http://www.devinetemptations.com/Force40Left_lrg.JPG
Right
http://www.devinetemptations.com/Force40Right_lrg.JPG
Rear
http://www.devinetemptations.com/Force40Rear_lrg.JPG

Glenn
 
Last edited:

pnwboat

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
4,251
Re: No low idle on Force 40

This procedure to check the timing is a static check, motor is not supposed to start.

Remove the plugs from the block, and leave the spark plug wires attached. Ground the plugs to the block using some jumper wires. Disable the neutral start switch by shorting across the two terminal with a jumper wire, or you can use a remote starter switch attached directly to the starter solenoid. Push the throttle to WOT. Attach the timing light to number one plug wire. Turn the ignition key to the ON position. Crank the motor over and you should be able to see the timing mark. It should be at 30 degrees, 32 max. advance.

If it's a bit confusing and you'd rather check it with the motor running,....... with the throttle at idle position, the timing should be close to zero degrees, maybe 1 - 3 degrees advanced. Unfortunately this won't tell you what the WOT timing is which is the most important thing. It will tell you if your timing is close to being correct.
 

pnwboat

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
4,251
Re: No low idle on Force 40

To adjust the timing you shorten the threaded rod circled in yellow to retard the timing, lengthen to advance the timing (or visa versa...looks like your's might be the opposite of what I just stated).
 

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john from md

Commander
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Apr 13, 2008
Messages
2,184
Re: No low idle on Force 40

Glenn,

Since you have a scale, it will be easy to find 30 degrees Before Top Dead Center.

When you pull the plugs, you want to put the wire back on and ground the shell to the crankcase.

The safety switch is electrical and it is usually located under the bellcrank that opens the throttle valves. Its purpose is to prevent the engine being started in any other position but idle. Since you want to check the timing at WOT, you must jump this switch or I guess you can hold down the actuator button with a tie wrap.

John
 

The Mutt

Cadet
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
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Re: No low idle on Force 40

Sorry about the delay getting back with any updates, it has rained with no letup since Saturday night.

I had a quick look under the top this morning before going to work, the threaded rod that controls the advance/retard of the timing was wound out to the point that it was recessed 3 mm into the plastic threaded holder item 21 http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Me...AGE/parts.html the link throttle itself had shiny threads out from item 21 for a small distance, so I wound the rod in by four full turns to cover the shiny threads and started the motor, BINGO, the motor now idles and revs.

If the rain stops long enough on the weekend I'll confirm the timing and do a proper tune using the appropriate settings.

As a side note, I've had problems with truck and car motors before where the previous owners have altered the timing due to blocked filters and minor fuel pump faults, I had a gut feeling that I was up against the same problem with the outboard, that's why I was interested in how to alter the timing.

I'll let you know how things go.

Glenn
 

john from md

Commander
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
2,184
Re: No low idle on Force 40

Good on you mate! Two stroke, four stroke, diesel, gasoline, all is no matter. If you are a good mechanic (I hate the term technician) you can fix anything.

John ;)
 

The Mutt

Cadet
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Messages
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Re: No low idle on Force 40

Soory about the delay posting the outcome, I have been pulling apart our vehicles diesel while not out working, did the head gasket.

The outboard is now at 32 degrees WOT, even then it didn't want to idle correctly on it's own, we took the slop out of the links from the throttle control and adjusted the mix a bit more, our outboard sounds like a new motor.

Thanks again for the advice gents.

Glenn
 
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