No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

[Eddie Rivera]

Need help! 1989 50 HP 2 stroke Force on a 15 Ft. 89 Bayliner. First real boat. I turned it on one time after I purchased it. Installed the ear muffs. They got tangled with the prop. Didn't notice. I noticed it was not cranking at times then it did. I had engaged the gears and wanted to see the prop go. I may have revved it too fast and I saw some sparks out of the stator area. Then I noticed I had ruined my prop my muffs and cracked the starter upper holding bracket. I "think" it did start after that. So I replaced the broken starter upper bracket and purchased a new 27 series battery. My motor cranks strongly but does not even cough or tries to start. I have no spark. Motor started fine till these events took place. Both times we started it was with a car's battery and had to use a bit of starting fluid and it started fast and strong after that. Ok i now took apart the complete ignition system. discovered a burnt section on the stator but the conecting wire within the stator is simply burnt on the insulation part and wire is not broken, at least not visibly I got the trigger and the two coils and the ignition module. but i need help in testing each device for continuity. where do i set my ohm reader at? i get different readings depending on the setting I put it on. While testing the coils and ignition module the reading at a setting of 200 reads 00.00 but what does it mean? All the other settings do give me a reading. I have everything out now. Please help. Desperately need help. Please I've put too much money and endless hours on this little boat for this to happen now.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke





outboard ignition . com or CDI ignition Both have test procedures.
Check out the sites and do the tests for your stator.
One good thing is the parts are available.
The stator for your motor will also fit the 85/125 90/120?
But if you have a burn't spot on a stator it's probably shot.
Before you do anymore work.Do a compression test.Post your results.
Profile? location? You might be close to someone who can help??
If an outbords setup right you should NEVER need starting fluid.
The sparks were probably the stator shorting out.
The muffs you need are the ones in the pic.The others can actually cause the motor to overheat.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

Hello and Thank you so much for responding. It's been most frustrating to be stuck here a this point but your and everyone's help is much appreciated. I live in the city of Ontario in Southern California. I did what you said and performed a compression test. The initial test was dry, cold and not having turned on for more than a month. Reading was 95 and it was the same on both cylinders. I did not perform the wet test. I needed the time to remove the fly week with no special fly wheel holding tool. And still not sure how I will put it back. I've never had a boat nor seen an outboard. But I have already changed all the seals and gaskets and oil from bottom end, re did the floor my self with new seating and have repaired a few screw holes in the hull. Changed the fuel lines and new priming bulb changed the cracked upper sarter holding bracket changed the fuel filter screen got a new propeller and 8 foot antena for my radio for i do intend to cruise the long beach and san pedro marina and bay and i clean it all out and have got no experience but I do posses a great desire to have my 3 year old and young wife out on the water. I'm obsessed with this boat as I said and nothing will stop me till input it in the water. Maybe it's the ex military side of me as a Marine I take on any challenge seriously. Well hope to hear back from everyone and will try out anything. You all be blessed and thank you ahead.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

What if when my earmuffs were tangled in the prop the motor was running with no water and I didn't notice right away. Could that have caused the burn stater? Remember also though that the stater was loose when I removed the fly wheel though. And I had no spark even with a brand new battery. I did put a brand new impeller and greased it very well. But just wanted to throw this out there. Oh and I have not done a wet compression test. I would not know how much fuel and oil mixture to throw in there.

 

[cuenta]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

not spark?


first check the coil

http://forums.iboats.com/force-chry...cal-issues-save-money-593803.html#post4123689

second check the stator

blue wire with yellow wire
multimeter in function of ohm..
this has to give 700 at 900 ohm .

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

FORGOT THIS!!!! Check the flywheel key, it could have sheared.

Also if the comp is only 90 ?? It should be around 150#
Get another tester,do another check?
If the stator was loose then it could have shorted out. It needs tight screws to ground out the system.
Make sure that the flywheel key is in right.
Then do the test using the procedures from ignition . com.
No water wouldn't necessarily cause a short. It would overheat and stop thee motor??

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

Thanks guys! I understand I neef to check the different parts. I'm too anal about understanding things completely. For example. On my multi tester if I do the ohm testing- where do I set it at??? >+ / 200 / 2k / 20k / 200k / 2M????? Second ) my stater has 2 sets of wires in each side. One side has a green with yellow wire, and two brown with a blue line wires that one has a number 1 te other a number 3. The other side has the another green with yellow line wire and two brown with yellow lines that have a number 2 and a number 4. All the wires at the tip have a "Y" type of connector that goes into a screw. The stator itself has windings on one half with the copper wire showing the other half are covered with a white insulation. As I said all 4 screws holding the stater were half way out and loose. But the burn section still shows the wire un cut ad with no insulation. I don't know what setting to use on ohm meter and what wires to test? Ok if I test the two green with yellow wires at 200 ohm I get 00.8 . When I test the number the number 2/4 together it decreases and stops at 00.2 . If I test the metal stater ring I get 00.2 . So I hope this helps you guys help me. I don't know how to send you guys a picture to see it if need be.

 

[cuenta]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

200 ohm. read of 0 at 199 ohm.
2000 ohm. read of 0 to 2000 ohm.
1k. start read 1000 ohm.
20k. start read 20,000 0hm.
200k. start read 200,000 ohm.
1M ohm. = 1 million of ohm.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

Ok thanks for the explanation. I kinda figured that.
What I need to know is where do I put my setting at? But te hingbof it is that before the 200 I have a dial that looks like and arrow pointing to the right and touching a plus sign. What is that? Also on the ohm reader when I test the ign coil I get some reading on every dial except 200 ohm. That's throws me off.

 

[cuenta]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

make sure the kill switch is on

if you no put the kill switch you does not get spark

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

Jerry, The little Pin is there and didn't mess anything up. I will get a different comp tester and do both a wet one too. How much fuel and oil mixture do I add to te chamber though? Also I need to map out all the wires behind the steering wheel cuz it's a mess in there. Wires are of different color and attached to others and some just hang and I'm curious to how identify them in the key switch. And verify that kill circuit cuz the heat buzzer is out and at the engine it's the only connection with no electricity nor ground. Also the kill switch is out and I don't think is properly connected but I think it works. Aside from that I do have issues with the testing. I need someone to tell were to set my dial of ohm. I've seen links and it says what the reading should be but don't know where they set the dial at to get it cuz I get different readings at different settings and when I test the ign coils and the ign module and set it at 200 ohm I get no movement what's so ever but yet I get a reading on the rest of the settings. I'm so confused and burned out

 

[cuenta]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

to test coil

**primary test**

multimeter dial set at 200 ohm.
black lead to ground (black wire)
red lead to primary wire
this has to give 0.2 to 1.0 Ω

**secondary test**
multimeter dial set at 2000 ohm.
black lead to primary wire
red lead to spark plug wire inside the boot
this has to give 800 to 1100 ohm..(kΩ)

 

[cuenta]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

These documents would help




http://rapidshare.com/files/656872231/force seloc chart.pdf


http://rapidshare.com/files/2097564858/Force_85-125_HP_Outboard_Owners_Manual.pdf

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

Cuenta- I did the test you described on the ignition coil and my readings based on your settings worked. So it's not my ignition coil. I would live to know how to test my ignition module feeding both my ignition coils to make sure. Help!!!!!!!

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

First. Replace all the wire ends or connectors.
You have spark on either plugs?
A wet comp test? Not really needed.
But if you want??Just spray a bit of WD-40 in the cylinders.
The burnt stator is probably gonna be the problem.
If the test calls for a reading of 100 ohms then set the meter to the next scale,mine starts at x1 x10 x100 x1k What ever your meter has??
Usually the coils don't go bad.The tests are easy. Your just making it harder than it really is.

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

Jerry, thanks for your help too. Neither ignition coil/ spark plug has spark at all. Motor cranks beautifully with a bran new Battery. I did a bypass for the kill switch turning the switch on and of and in neither case it started or attempted to. We all think is the stator. I tested it again touching some small winding wires and there is continuity only one way. In other words what ever is on either side I the burnt part.
Would it be ok to buy a used one? I know its recommended to buy a new one. I found it from $400 to $208. I was told there is two tests for the compression test. 1) normal - but it's recommended for the motor to have been warmed up first. 2) wet - by putting some fuel in the chamber and measuring it. Also they place importance on the compressions test difference between chambers. That is significant indication of trouble. So? Doin donor till it turns on? Then measure the comp?
I will order the stator where I can find it the cheapest new preferably but the recommended o e seems to be a bit different.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

I NEVER test the compression the first time with oil or anything sprayed into the cylinders.
It gives false readings.
You want the readings the way the motor is now.
If there is a question of a bad ring?? Then you can add oil to see if it brings up comp.
The oil in a 4cycle will tell if the rings or the valves are the problem.Not so much in your 2 stroke.
If there is a difference of 5 or more pounds?? It's telling you that one cylinder,the rings might be siezd or broken.
Mostly it tells you there is a problem starting???
Force Outboard Stator 125 HP 125HP Good Working Order FCC 3007C | eBay THIS IS FOR A STATOR THAT WILL WORK. Not saying it's good???
But way cheaper than new??

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

I ordered a brand new stator should be coming around Wednesday will test - compare and install then I shall share what the results ultimately show.

 

[jmk]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

Thanks guys! I understand I neef to check the different parts. I'm too anal about understanding things completely. For example. On my multi tester if I do the ohm testing- where do I set it at??? >+ / 200 / 2k / 20k / 200k / 2M????? Second ) my stater has 2 sets of wires in each side. One side has a green with yellow wire, and two brown with a blue line wires that one has a number 1 te other a number 3. The other side has the another green with yellow line wire and two brown with yellow lines that have a number 2 and a number 4. All the wires at the tip have a "Y" type of connector that goes into a screw. The stator itself has windings on one half with the copper wire showing the other half are covered with a white insulation. As I said all 4 screws holding the stater were half way out and loose. But the burn section still shows the wire un cut ad with no insulation. I don't know what setting to use on ohm meter and what wires to test? Ok if I test the two green with yellow wires at 200 ohm I get 00.8 . When I test the number the number 2/4 together it decreases and stops at 00.2 . If I test the metal stater ring I get 00.2 . So I hope this helps you guys help me. I don't know how to send you guys a picture to see it if need be.

I find you tube helps me out a lot. try typing in your style of multi tester and ohms and see if someone made a video. You can check for other videos on the matter too. I do and fix lots of stuff like my diswasher and sewing machine just from watching videos. May or may not?

 

[Eddie Rivera]

Re: No spark 89 force 50 hp 2 stroke

Ok I got my new stator, installed it and - yes yes yes my motor now starts right up. I now got 3 other issues. 1) motor is leaking due to an exhaust gasket leak. 2) the gears are out of whack- in neutral the prop moves in reverse it doesn't . I think something was damaged when my earmuffs got tangled with the prop. Now motor won't turn off until I push the coils forward. Some of the wires may not like each other and something is rubbing. Please help.