no spark on num 1 cyl

[1ass2risk]

I am also having problems with a force engine hope someone can help. I have a 1988 85 hp force (thats probaly my first problem) I have spark on 2 and 3 but not on one. I've changed the coil packs around. I took the coil off of 2 which was working and put it for number 1 and 1 for 2 still no spark on 1 but spark on 2 so the coil pack is good. . I changed the cdi pack in the front which runs cyl 1 and 2 same thing spark on 2 but not on 1 even though they both run off the same pack (don't understand why that is unless one side goes bad) Thought maybe the stator changed that, same problem no spark on 1 but good spark on 2 and 3. now the odds of everything that I changed all being bad and causeing the same problem....not likely so....I was thinking maybe ground issue but then if that was the case i might not have any spark but I do. I also changed the trigger still no spark on 1. Now when i reverse the wires on the cdi pack they are org/red and switch them then I have spark on 1 but not on 2. I have also replaced all the wire ends with new ones thinking there was a broke wire same problem. Please help Thanks for any answers you can come up with. Signed FUSTRATED

 

[pnwboat]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

Checking the ground connections is a good start. Especially the ground wire that goes from the coil mounting plate to the engine block. Also keep in mind that the problem with #1 cylinder may be caused by the CD pack for #3 cylinder. You should also measure the resistance on the ignition trigger coil for #1 cylinder. It should be 50 - 55 OHMs.

 

[1ass2risk]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

do those have to be checked with the engine running? And what kind of tester. I even switched the cdi packs around making the front one run #3 and the rear one run #1 and #2 same problem. I'm new to the boat game but I have worked on motorcycles and cars my whole life, but after all the problems I've had with this engine I can pretty much do anything with it I just need a little help. When I got the boat just about a month ago I took it out and it ran like a champ for about 4 hrs then it just diied. I figured out that the diaphram in the fuel pump was bad replaced and was back in business. But when I took it out the next time I gave it full throtle and was going about 10 mph. Thought it was the fuel problem again but found out it was spark. The motor will start as soon as I turn the key and doesn't really sound like its missing but just dont have spark on that cyl. Thanks for any help you can give.

 

[Robert D]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

Sounds like the trigger assembly. Check the resistance in the wires. If okay, they look under the flywheel to check that the magnets are attached well.

 

[shytownborn]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

check your trigger with the motor not running, all you need is a cheap volt ohm meter, you can buy them at harbor freight or radio shack, like pnwboat said you should read 50 to 55 ohms on all three if you get no reading on anyone trigger coil your trigger is no good

 

[pnwboat]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

To check the trigger coil, you need a Digital Multi-Meter. Any low cost one will do. An auto-ranging unit like this is will work.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000EVYGZA/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_3?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0012VWR20&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1KPE9CFVP7AQ9Y6GY7G7

You check the trigger coil resistance with the motor off and the trigger wire(s) disconnected. Should be the small Orange and Green trigger wires for #1 cylinder all the way to the right on the terminal strip. If you've swapped the CD modules around with no change, that would eliminate them as a cause. Check the trigger wires themselves where they come out from under the flywheel. Make sure they aren't rubbing on the flywheel and broken. As you move the throttle forward and backward, the tower-shaft moves the trigger under the flywheel back and forth. Sometimes the wires get hung up and break or rub in a certain position. Also check the wires where they run behind the coil mounting plate. Make sure they're not pinched between the rubber isolation mounts and the coil mounting plate or block. If the insulation is broken and it's touching the coil mounting plate or block, it'll kill the trigger signal to the CD modules. I know the wires behind the coil mounting plate are probably kind of hard to see. On the four cylinder motors, I've seen some that look like a big ball of spaghetti! Just take your time and be careful.

Note: Before you do this, carefully mark the wires and where they go before disconnecting them so you can put them back the way the were originally. If you want to check the trigger signal without the meter, you can simply reverse the pair of Orange and Green trigger wires from the first two terminals all the way to the right with the pair of Red and White/Orange trigger wires right next to them. Red and White/Orange trigger wires are for #2 cylinder. Take both spark plugs out but leave the connected to the spark plug wires. Ground the body of each plug against the engine block. Crank the motor and check for spark. If the problem moves, you know it's either the trigger or broken/shorted trigger wires.

 

[1ass2risk]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

cool thanks ill try that when i get home thanks for the help and will let you know soon

 

[1ass2risk]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

ok so I understand the switching of the wire but does it matter where it goes by that I mean the first two are org / grn then the next two are red / white and green but when I switch them do they stay in that order they came off? anyway did that keep them in order and same problem spark on 2 not on 1. so in other words moved the org to the third screw and the grn to the forth- then moved the red to number 2 screw and the white and green to the first

 

[pnwboat]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

I just realized that I was not real clear. I just want to make sure. There are two sets of Orange, Green, and Red, White Green wires on the right most 4 terminals. One set (4 wires) comes from the trigger assy., the other set (4 wires) comes from the CD module. Did you just swap the two pairs of wires that come from the trigger? You didn't move the wires that come from the CD Module did you? For this test to work you have to leave the 4 wires from the CD module in their original positions. If you just swapped the two pars of wires from the trigger, then you've proven that the trigger coil normally for #1 cylinder was working as it was triggering #2 coil. So based on this test either the CD module is bad, something is interfering with the CD module or something is mis-wired. You can eliminate the 2nd CD module (for #3 cylinder) by disconnecting the white wire from the 2nd CD module that goes over to the terminal block on the other side of the motor.

 

[1ass2risk]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

yes just the ones from the trigger and left the ones for the cdi in their same spots. ok now I left the two white wires from the cdi packs that go to the otherside off by accident and still had spark on 2 and 3 (strange)but not on one. the wiring is corrrect cause theres a diagram on the block that tells me where they go and i've checked it several times just to make sure. so anything else will help please and thanks

 

[pnwboat]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

OK. You said that you swapped the CDI's around and it made no difference. Is that correct? I know this sounds strange, but what color is the wire that goes from the 2nd CDI to #3 coil? It's the wire that's got the black tubular connector on it connected to the white wire on the coil. If it is Red then I know what's happened. If it's Orange, then we go back to square one.

 

[1ass2risk]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

yes i made the rear cdi run 1 and 2 and the front run #3 same problem. So then i switched the org and red on the rear pack the one that is now running 1 and 2 and it changed the problem gave me spark on one but now no spark on two. So i switched everything back like it was, the front cdi for #1 and #2 and the rear for #3 still no spark on #1. the wire on the rear cdi is connected to the org wire so............

 

[pnwboat]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

Man, this is really a strange one. The only other thing that I can think of is the rectifier. Disconnect the two Green/Yellow wires going from the stator to the rectifier. Tape the ends off so they don't touch anything and see if that does anything.

 

[1ass2risk]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

Changed that two its got the 2 green a blk and a red right? A little square box next to the starter. } don't know myself } guess we can read through what we posted and see if we missed anything

 

[pnwboat]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

Yes the little square thing by the starter is the rectifier. Hmmmmm. Well here's one other suggestion. You should have a White/Green and Red wire from the 2nd CDI that goes to the terminal block. Positions 7 and 8 counting from the right. There should be no other wires attached to these two screw terminals. Move the Orange and Green Trigger wires from the two right hand most positions, 1 and 2 to the White/Green and Red wires at position 7 and 8. Take the unused Red wire with the black barrel connector on the second CDI and connect it to the white wire for coil number 1.

 

[1ass2risk]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

Which white wire the one that crosses over to the other side for number 1 or a different one. Thanks for all the help so far and ill try that when I get home around 7

 

[pnwboat]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

No I believe you're referring to the Kill circuit wire. I meant the white wire that comes off of number 1 coil with the black barrel connector. What we're attempting to do here is to use the unused half of the 2nd CDI to drive #1 coil. Move just the trigger wires (leave the wires for the CDI alone) for number 1 cylinder (positions 1 & 2 on the terminal block counting from right to left) to the unused positions for the 2nd CDI (I'm pretty sure they're positions 7 & 8 on the terminal block counting from right to left). Connect the red wire from the second CDI (which normally is not used) with the black barrel connector to the white wire with the black barrel connector on #1 coil. This is not normally done but you seem to have something very strange going on here.

 

[1ass2risk]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

ok so I moved the org and grn from the first two screws to screws number 7 and 8 which is the wht/grn and the red. now I also left the wht/grn and the red there and just put the org and grn on top of them is that correct? I also left the org and grn wires for the #1 cdi pack there on the first two screws is that correct? then i changed the #1 coil to run off the red wire on the rear cdi pack is that also correct? if all this is correct still same problem its kinda hard this boat crap is.

 

[pnwboat]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

This doesn't make sense. Ok lets put everything back to the original positions. Best thing to do now is to get an OHM meter. We need to check the resistance of the trigger coils and the stator windings. One other thing. The trigger has two Orange wires and two Green wires. One pair of Orange Green wires is for number 1 cylinder and the other pair of Orange Green wires is for number 3 cylinder. Are you sure the you haven't gotten one of the Orange or Green wires mixed up?

 

[1ass2risk]

Re: no spark on num 1 cyl

Thats a good question i will have to check that. I'm also on my way now to a friend that has some testers to test the startor and the trigger so I will let you know the out come. And once again thanks for all the help so far I have learned alot from you. will post soon