North Korea

[QC]

Re: North Korea

CJY,

I would submit that you are ignoring the obvious though. The Middle East and Islamic fundamentalists are at the route of the worlds most recently manifested terrors. Although I know that Saddam himself is secular, the geography and absolute proof that Al Qaeda was operating in Iraq at least move Iraq up the priority list. Oil is in fact a consideration too as our interests happen to include free access. BTW, didn't we start the restriction of free oil trade with Iraq?

Personally, I think we should 86 Kim Jong Il at the next opportunity, but that is illegal . . .

Instead of a retraction, I will repeat, I think it is at best extremely disrespectful, and at worst sick, to assert and/or imply that personal financial gain is at the route of any of these decisions.

If I recall you are an educator, right?

 

[CJY]

Re: North Korea

Disrespectful? Sick? to have an opinion and be critical? If that qualifies me as disrespectful, then I guess I will continue to be. Again, I never said nor do I believe oil was/is the main reason we went into Iraq.

I would agree, the middle east is a problem, which would increase alarm.

However, geography should not have been a consideration, in my opinion. If that's the case, we should go get Israel because we don't like where they are located geographically. A direct and proven threat to the US should have been the only consideration. In my mind, that makes OBL #1. Ok, the US and other countries believed Hussein had WMD. We attacked...fair enough. I can live with that. I even supported it at the moment. I cannot live with the fact that we are still there while another country with an "evil" leader is flaunting his power and possible use of WMD right in our face. It is more important, in my opinion, to pay full attention to KJI right now and put Iraq on the back burner. As far as that goes, OBL should have been priority #1after 9/11 and should continue to be. It scares the he77 out of me knowing he is out there and is still very capable of mass destruction here on our own soil. KJI fits this category as well. Iraq never has and if we did not know that then, we sure as heck do now. Yet, we concentrate our efforts there. It baffles me.

Our initial goal was not to rid Iraq of Al Qaeda. It was to stop Hussein and his possible construction or use of WMD. We did that. Had our goal been to rid AQ from Iraq, I would have been and would be much less critical. However, that was not the original stated goal, at least not as I recall. Right now, we have issues of more importance.

 

[QC]

Re: North Korea

Disrespectful? Sick? to have an opinion and be critical? If that qualifies me as disrespectful, then I guess I will continue to be. Again, I never said nor do I believe oil was/is the main reason we went into Iraq.

Please reread my comment. I was clear about the assertion of personal gain. That was my concern about your comments and still is.

However, geography should not have been a consideration, in my opinion. If that's the case, we should go get Israel because we don't like where they are located geographically.

Come on, you know that is not analogous and you also know that was not my point. Geography is always a consideration.

Ok, the US and other countries believed Hussein had WMD. We attacked...fair enough. I can live with that. I even supported it at the moment.

OK, so you agreed to go in, hang in there with me . . .

I cannot live with the fact that we are still there while another country with an "evil" leader is flaunting his power and possible use of WMD right in our face . . . put Iraq on the back burner . . . Our initial goal was not to rid Iraq of Al Qaeda. It was to stop Hussein and his possible construction or use of WMD. We did that . . . Right now, we have issues of more importance.

Sorry for the selected quotes, not trying to mess you up or corner you, but I don't understand the leave part. You honestly think we should have packed up and left? "Sorry we're late for another party. Good luck with the clean up . . . " The America I love does not do that (yes, I know about Vietnam).

In my mind, that makes OBL #1 . . . As far as that goes, OBL should have been priority #1after 9/11 and should continue to be. It scares the he77 out of me knowing he is out there and is still very capable of mass destruction here on our own soil.

Then you should support overt and covert action to limit, track and record any and all correspondence, money etc. that could potentially lead to and/or impede OBL.

I cannot live with the fact that we are still there while another country with an "evil" leader is flaunting his power and possible use of WMD right in our face. It is more important, in my opinion, to pay full attention to KJI right now and put Iraq on the back burner . . . KJI fits this category as well . . . Right now, we have issues of more importance. (last two comments relates to KJI's ability to hurt us)

What I get from this is that you support going after someone if they have the potential to hurt us. You are consistent. What is also clear is that you want to pack up and leave when things are clearer with no regard for the local citizenry. And it is also clear that you sometimes trust our intelligence, but you don't trust our ability to walk and chew gum at the same time. We definitely cannot be all places at once, but we can monitor and destroy stuff if it is obvious that the madman is about to launch something big enough to hurt us or seriously destabilise a region. In this regard I think even China would be an ally. They are ten times more rational than the knuckleheads surrounding Iraq and Israel . . .

For the record, we agree, I also want KJI dead. Not sure what that has to do with Iraq, OBL, oil, Bush retirement plans, Haliburton, 9/11, The Mid-East etc.

 

[CJY]

Re: North Korea

Covert / overt action. I have no problem when used properly. There was discussion of W using wire taps as a way to suppress negative talk of his leadership skills. Did he...I certainly hope not. Liberal BS, I don't know...maybe.

As far as packing up and leaving Iraq, Yes, I think we should. First of all, we don't know what the people of Iraq are willing to fight for. Let's give them a chance to fight for democracy. I don't think we should be dying for their democracy if it proves to be they are not willing to die for it themselves. I just want to know what they truly want. I am not saying we would never return. Let them spill some blood fighting for their freedom. In this way, it may be a bit more valuable to them when given future help to obtain it. When we have a fruitcake with our west coast in his cross-hairs, I think their are other areas of the world to better concentrate our military. As far as the mess in Iraq goes, we eliminated their evil dictator. Why can't they use some of their own money to rebuild. If they begin spending their oil to rebuild, I believe our gov should be as far away from that as possible. If not, well, you know what will be proven true.

Regarding your second to last paragraph:

I have great regard for cirizenry, but it has to be US citizens first. If we were in a situation where we had zero conflict besides Iraq, great, lets help them get what they truly want. Do we really know what they want? As far as our military doing two thigs at once, sure they can. When military generals are reporting we are short of man power and equipment in Iraq, then I have to wonder if we have the resources to fend off another such as N. Korea should they decide to carry their testing out a bit further. China may be our ally in such case, but maybe only if they were aimed at. If California happened to be the only area in KJI sights, China may be willing to keep a lower profile than we would like. Yes, I know we could defend ourselves in such an event. However, I personally never want to see our need to defend ourselves from such an attack. If we keep Iraq occupied, and don't do more in N. Korea, that may be exactly what we will have to do... defend rather than squash the threat now before it becomes reality. I don't like hearing talk of their capabilities while at the same time see little quality action taken.

Did you really have to throw that last paragraph in there? You know each of those were completely taken out of their context only made to appear irrelevant. I used them to make / illustrate several points important to my own reasoning and discussion at the time.

QC, you said... ahh nevermind. I won't take chosen words from your post to make all you have said sound irrelevant.

 

[QC]

Re: North Korea

CJY,

I did not ever intend to cherry pick your statements. I was trying to group related sentences, so that I could respond, honestly. I even said so. I think this is the best we have actually corresponded . . . I even agree with most of what you say. I had and still do have a problem with the personal gain stuff. That one really gets my hackles up, that's why I asked you to retract. For me it makes it hard to have serious dialogue, because the assertion is that we have a sociopath in the White House, and I just don't think that is the case.

I am not sure what you mean by the "last paragraph"? Mine? Again, I think we agree, KJI is a disaster waiting to happen, I trust we have an eye on him despite the war in Iraq . . . that was what I meant. If it was the way I arranged your last paragraph (in the little blue box) I am not sure what you are objecting to. Sorry if it appeared that I was trying to twist your words, reread my first comments here . . . Later.

 

[--GQ--]

Re: North Korea

Hmmm, how did this thread becomes a shouting match between QC and CJY? See if I can steer us back on track. I think the topic was; I'll sum it up, Why go to war in Iraq and not N. Korea.

1) Let us stick to the subject above and not the other member. Stat your position and back it up with facts and or opinions. You don't go to a sporting event to watch the referees do you? I think not so let's enjoy the game.

2) Unlike Iraq, N. Korea has two big brothers. Their names are China and Russia. Any war will certainly involve the borthers and perhaps the whole region. Furthermore, N.K. has a sizable army with unlimited supply of Russian's military hardwares. They will not roll over as easily. Even with a crazy person, we think of Kim Jong Il, I'm sure there are more puppet masters behind the curtain pulling the string with China's approval. My thinking is this conflict will be another "Nam" should war is a reality. I think this is the reason why we're not at war with N. Korea nor will we ever be.

Now on the other side of the world, I am clueless. I just don't get the logic. Al-Queda attacked us; we went after it which we and most of the world agree on. Then we went into Iraq. If not for the oil profit, someone paleeeeeeeeeease enlighten me on this for I am at a lost of words. This is what it comes down to; your son throw a baseball through the window so you beat your daughter senseless? Riddle me that Batman !

3) Rubber, I like your "sup uped" Ford Taurus. Quite a Chick Magnet you got there. A classic indeed. I bet you get all the girls riding that baby huh? I can almost picture myself in it :'( I know you did allot of modifications on that one of a kind ride. What ya got, supercharged, Nitrious? Gotta have one of those when I grow up 8) . You know, since I was a child, a yellow "sup uped" Ford Taurus has always been my fantasy car :' One it will be my reality. Just gotta keep trowing pennies into my Peggy Bank o(. Hey can I hang out with you sometime, Kool Dude? Can I huh can I ? You rock Kool one ! Oh don't forget to post pics of engine. d

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: North Korea

Hey can I hang out with you sometime, Kool Dude? Can I huh can I ?

Maybe I'll let you wax my car sometime

You rock Kool one !

No need to state the obvious 8)

Oh don't forget to post pics of engine. d

Per your request-

 

[CJY]

Re: North Korea

QC,

I'm not talking about rearranging my paragraphs. I understood that. The very last paragraph you posted;

"For the record, we agree, I also want KJI dead. Not sure what that has to do with Iraq, OBL, oil, Bush retirement plans, Haliburton, 9/11, The Mid-East etc. "

To me, it sounds as though beyond KJI, I was wasting my time with all that I said. ---> "Not sure what that has to do with Iraq, OBL, oil, Bush retirement plans, Haliburton, 9/11, The Mid-East etc. "

Felt like you were telling me everything else I posted was irrelevant. If I misread your intent, I apologize.

We probably agree on more than we think . I guess I tend to be a bit more of a pesimist when it comes to W though. I think we both want the same in the end. We don't always agree on how we should get there.


GQ, I"M NOT SHOUTING! d

 

[ob]

Re: North Korea

I would hope for the sake of US military intelligence that the specifics of how we as a nation are dealing with the North Korea issue is maintained within that intelligence.The fact that the specifics are not common knowledge in no way way means that it is and has not been in our nations sights.I got a hunch that occupying the region with ground forces is not part of the strategy.I'm not sure what is,but the day that Alan Colmes tells me what it is will be a sad day for our nations security strategies.For now ,the media and impatient demanding individuals will have to just hold off and report the news as it happens,not before it happens.

The long range security of our nation and many others when it comes to the nuclear subject,like it or not,depends on the rational polarity of the UN.It ain't a pretty picture from my view,but we'll just have to see what transpires.

 

[--GQ--]

Re: North Korea

Rubber, I gotta say, you are goofy. And you're buddy Haut Medoc to. Come to think of it, you are that kid I beat up for lunch money in 4th grade 8) . I remember you used to walk up to me after mom dropped you off at school and stuck a $5 bill in my hand every morning. You even begged to hang out with me cause Little Suzzy said you got the "couties". Man how ironic, now I'm begging to hang out with you. Talking about a twist of faith. What comes around goes around I guess.o


Oh shoot, I am high jacking.... Yeah N. Korea Iraq are crazy. I say we nuke em.

 

[QC]

Re: North Korea

CJY,

Yes, good point. Somewhat dissmissive, sorry.

GQ,

I WASN'T EITHER!!

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: North Korea

Rubber, I gotta say, you are goofy. And you're buddy Haut Medoc to. Come to think of it, you are that kid I beat up for lunch money in 4th grade 8) . I remember you used to walk up to me after mom dropped you off at school and stuck a $5 bill in my hand every morning. You even begged to hang out with me cause Little Suzzy said you got the "couties".

I remember that. I was graduating college and your mom was dropping you off at kindergarten.
I've always been afraid of little kids!