not using marine starter.. should I replace?

[waterone1@aol.com]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

Aggiedave, your question has been answered more than once. I just can't believe the fertilizer I'm hearing on here. Trogg, what is your boat....an outboard with a portable six gallon tank ? Every major manufacturer of larger boats has 100-200 gallon tanks that the bottom is not accessible unless you remove the engines to get the tanks out. Are you really saying that people should pull both of their big block inboards every year for an inspection of the full tank ??<br />Someone asks a valid safety question about a starter and you turn it into a dissertation about how fuel tanks shouldn't leak ??? My furnace and water heater here at home should not produce carbon monoxide, but I have two co detectors just in-case they do.....so my family doesn't die ! It only takes one malfunction, either in your boat or at home, and you don't get a second chance.

 

[cmyers_uk]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

My understanding was that its a legal requirement to have marine equipment. It is a legal requirement so as to avoid these types of argument. Change your starter and any other non marine bits for the right part.<br /><br />Dont think you can beat the sniff test on a speedboat though before you start!

 

[seahorse5]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

Originally posted by aggiedave98:<br /> <br /><br /> <br /><br />Now of course I know that I should have gotten a marine starter.<br /><br />At this point, I'm assuming I should just but a $260 marine starter and switch it out. But, it sounds like some folks here are cautious and other are not so cautious... should I go ahead and replace my automotive starter even though it works fine?

You can find CG approved rebuilt starters at the following companies for less cost than a new one.<br /><br /> http://www.apimarine.com/ <br /><br /> http://www.arcomarine.com/catalog.htm

 

[blackz3]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

I just got off the phone with searay bayliner and a few others.... ordered a total recal of all thier napome boats so terriorist dont get any ideas. trog that was soooo irresponsible and total BS

 

[trog100]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

he he.. my boat is twenty foot renken 2000 classic built around 1988.. it has a built in aluminum tank that holds about 40 US gallons..<br /><br />it also has a kicker so yes it does have an outboard with 6 gallon tank as well..<br /><br />i have no idea of the integrity of the tank.. cos i cannot get at it to inspect it.. its all built in and the entire boat is covered in carpet..<br /><br />this is bad design.. i would dearly love to be able to inspect the integrity of my potential bomb called a gas tank but i cant..<br /><br />and i might have to rip it all out and build in proper inspection hatches.. cos the UK boat safety requirements (our coastguard equivalent) might demand it..<br /><br />the same applies to the front cuddy cabin area.. i would dearly love to inspect the integrity of the boats timbers and basic internal structure.. but i cant its all glassed in and covered in the usual carpet everywhere..<br /><br />these kinda boat building methods are okay for new boats but there does come a time.. when the only way to check all these important things is to rip the lot out and start again..<br /><br />logic and law dont end at the american borders.. the oft quoted US coastguard dont mean a rats wotsit to me or anybody else that dont live under their jurisdiction..<br /><br />if UK safety laws say gas tanks to be safe should be inpsectable.. i cant really fault their logic.. even if it will cause me major problems..<br /><br />lets just say that me and the entire UK boat safety industry are agreed on this one.. tanks and gas fittings u cant inspect are dangerous..<br /><br />a way of making napalm by the way blacz3 is to disolve polystyrene foam (white foam) in gas till it forms a gel.. but i am sure most would-be terrorists already know this.. he he he..<br /><br />and anyone who knows the auto industries history of selling the general public potential gas tank bombs shouldnt be entirely surprised that the boat industry could be guilty of similar practices.. <br /><br />trog100

 

[blackz3]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

hey evryone why hasnt someone invented a starter that doesnt blow up napom....well it was just a thought

 

[tommays]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

there is not a fuel tank made that can not have a low pressure test done in place to find out if it has a leak you only need to know the test pressure the tank maker recomends for a test<br /><br /><br />tommays

 

[Fishermark]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

I hesitate entering the fray, but I am curious. Trog, are all English built boats designed so the fuel tank is easily accessible for inspections? If that's the case, then I have to agree that is a good idea. I know my boat certainly is not. (I have a 24' Sportcraft walkaround). It has a 100 gallon built in tank. It is more accessible than many I see. The deck above the tank is removeable and you can access the entire TOP of the tank, but because of the baffles it is basically impossible to see much inside the tank, and due to the foam around it I cannot see under the tank. <br /><br />I really don't mean to add fuel (no pun intended ) to the fire, but how are your boats built differently, and what do the inspectors actualy do to inspect a tank? I'm just curious.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

I gotta see a limey boat with a 100%inspectable 250 gallon fuel tank . ya gotta put it someplace. and by law now the area the tank sits in must be sealed from the rest of the bilge as well as the tank mounted on rubber or foam or other substance to prevent movement and limit chafing. alot of our laws came from negligent people. I will warrenty if a blower was not a requirement no one would install it as an option.<br /> I see it daily.<br /> family of 4, kids in middle school two cars,financed, a house, financed, a riding mower, financed, all the furniture including the 52"flat screen telly,financed. then they buy a boat, financed of course. by the time all the other payments are made there is no money for boat maint so its run till its broke, just like the cars and the mower. I have even had some that the repairs entailed a hold while they tried to refinance the boat. so do you really think they will inspect a tank?<br /> and how do you inspect the bottom weld line on a limey tank ??

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

Geezus, that financing sounds like my wifes friend (bad influence). That's why I own a used boat. We paid cash for it, literaly. Don't the limeys have some kind of xray goggles they use to peer thru the hull?

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

This looks like too much fun. trog100, how long ya recon before the powers to be in the UK ban explosive liquids on all boats altogether? And what on earth would possess you to purchase a product that is, and I quote you: "we are talking very bad boat design here ain’t we.. these boats with built in tanks are explosions waiting to happen" All kidding aside the reason for the marine rated equipment is for additional insurance incase of some undetected problem. It is not unheard of for a fuel fitting or tank to fail while under way. At which point the likely hood of the operator or any one on board noticing it is slim…. Unless by chance the skier notes the smell of gas and gives the universal hand signal for your up s*** creek with out a paddle, and what ever ya do don’t light a match. Sorry not to good at the dry British humor.

 

[weatherz]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

I'm going to buck the trend here and say that Trog seems like an intelligent guy and he thinks for himself. He is opinionated to be sure, but unlike so many others that have to be told what to think or do, his ideas are logical to him and make sense to him. I surely don't take as gospel everything I read here, (with a few exceptions) and nobody should. These are just opinions and everybody is entitled to their own. I will listen to all, then use my own logic and intelligence to discern crap from quality.

 

[trog100]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

firstly i would like to say i aint a safety preaching kinda guy.. i take most of it with a pinch of salt and think i know whats safe and what aint.. <br /><br />but as time passes the "official" idea of whats safe and what isnt changes.. what was considered okay twenty years ago aint considered okay today..<br /><br />my boat is due for a required safety inspection sometime before august this year.. its a three year thing.. the "requirements" have changed since its last inspection.. they kinda introduce new things and so as not to **** too many folks of all at once they put time limits or exemptions on em.. <br /><br />its okay now lads.. but by 2008 u must comply with em.. kinda stuff.. some are straight safety things and some are enviromental things..<br /><br />i have a couple of worries with my boat.. one is the (new) requirement that the fuel tank pipes and fitting be "inspectable"..<br /><br />"easily reachable and at least partly visible for the purpose of inspection"..<br /><br />i have "boat built before 1998" exemptions from some of the requirments..<br /><br />but i know my built in tank cannot be easily reached or inspected.. simple as that..<br /><br />i can see about two inches of the top rear end which does at least make the connections visible.. but thats about all..<br /><br />the other problem i have is the bilge pump which is mounted under the engine.. the entire boat drains into this area under the engine.. it must now be mounted in such a way so that engine fluids cannot be accidentally discharged into the enviroment.. i have fitted a bloody great stainless steel cooking tray under the engine and hope i get away with this one..<br /><br />in truth i am hoping the inspector guy is gonna take pity on me cos its quite clear that my boat was never designed with these requirments in mind..<br /><br />these are inland waterway requiremnets.. for private coastal use they dont apply..<br /><br />interestingly there is no mention of engine electrical components.. i could have auto parts plastered all over my engine and it wouldnt matter in the slightest.. the guy would probably not even be aware of the potential danger.. ???<br /><br />here is link to anyone interested in the UK boat safety scheme.. just to see how safety ideas differ from country to country..<br /><br /> http://www.boatsafetyscheme.com/site/Home_1.asp <br /><br />as for building boats with gas tanks that cant be inspected.. i think its about as good an idea as building cars with the gas tank as part of the rear trunk floor with nothing between it and the passengers.. and cars with drum brakes that didnt work at high speeed.. brakes pipes out of untreated steel that goes rusty and many other idiocies that the folks who make our conveyances have thought okay in the past..<br /><br />trog100<br /><br />ps.. and for those who ask silly questions like why i did i buy such a boat.. ignorance.. i bought it on impulse.. and i trust my nose.. and am probably about as "safety" stupid as my 60 year old friend who appeared outside my house on a bloody great 180 mph japanese motor bike the other day.. he he he..

 

[Scaaty]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

Just how in the hell this thread EVER got past post number 2 is way beyond my rational thinking.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

Trog<br /> man I am glad to see overboard beurucrats are not strictly aan american thing . we have a device here that has aan oilsorb materiel thaat the bilge water can be pumped though before going overboard. its mounts in the pump discharge line.<br /> some of our rules are as vauge an open to interpetation as yours.<br /> what constitutes an inspectable tank? what are the inspectors guidlines? or is it open to interetation depending on how the inspector feels that day ?<br /> here we dont have to have an oil seperating device in the bilge, yet. there is a requirement to have bilge oil clean up and containment equipment in some ares. the coast gaurd rules of oil dischage is if it makes a visible sheen on the water. now that is wide open for interpetation if I ever saw it.<br /> so beurucratic foolery is alive and well on both sides of the pond.

 

[Manipulator]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

Wow! What a slug fest. aggiedave98, I have to agree with most of the people here. I would hate to spend the extra money and get a "marine" grade starter. But you are better safe than sorry. Then again, you might be fine if you run the blower for a minute or two before you fire it up. The thing is its something probably all of us forget to do. Or you could open the hatch every time you start it, which would probably get old in a hurry. I really do not know the differences in starters. I'm not sure what you can do to a marine starter to seal it. I know with most distributor caps the only difference between the marine and auto is the marine one comes with a gasket where it attaches to the distributor. So basically you could save money buying the automotive one and then buying the gasket separately.

 

[trog100]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

its alive and well everywhere i recon rod..<br /><br />and Robby6950.. my fault entirely i have a habit of lengthening the odd thread.. just the way i am.. i sometimes say the "wrong" thing and whoosh off it goes.. he he <br /><br />trog100

 

[90skichallenger]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

I am just glad my tank is mounted in the back behind a liftable panel. I just lift the panel and have complete access to my tank. But in this one everyone seems to be right. Trog...in a perfect world all tanks would be mounted like mine, and all people would inspect them seasonally. But this isnt a perfect world and we all (including boat designers) must do the best we can with what we have, use common sense, and hope for the best. Thats just the way it is. Lets all let go of our hostility and just agree that everyone has a good point to make.

 

[tommays]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

NO NO NO AND NO the marine parts are compleatly different and can not be DIY to be made to work<br /><br />there are two things trying to be controled by the saftey items<br /><br /> 1.is the ingition of fumes by sparks from whatever which is a flash point of fumes issue <br /><br /> 2. is controling the temp that hot gasses leaveing the device if fumes that have collected inside it explode to keep the hot gasses below the burning point of gas <br /><br /><br />tommays

 

[Limited-Time]

Re: not using marine starter.. should I replace?

trog&rodbolt<br />Ain't it nice to know our governments are so concerned with our well being. Kind of helps me sleep at night, NOT. BTW trog just kidding on the boat buying deal...have s similar boat in the garage…just hope it doesn’t blow up next time I turn on my non marine rated light switch. Come to think of it some one should inform the powers to be that light the switches in a garage should be explosion proof.....s***! now I wont be able to sleep at night.<br /><br /> L-T