Notch for timing is missing

milkyway

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 31, 2004
Messages
535
Merc 5.0L alpha 1999 TBV ignition<br /><br />I am trying to learn how to do timing. I found a notch on the engine behind the pulley but I could not find the tab with the TDC and also I could not find the notch in the pulley itself. <br /><br />Can someone guide me to these stupid questions?
 

milkyway

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 31, 2004
Messages
535
Re: Notch for timing is missing

My questions must be that stupid no none wants to reply.
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Notch for timing is missing

Originally posted by milkyway:<br /> My questions must be that stupid no none wants to reply.
Could also be that no one that has read your post yet knows the answer.<br /><br />There is a groove in the vibration dampner that is for 0° and the notch in the timing cover is also the 0° mark.<br />There should also be a decal on the vibration dampner that will show the degrees from 6°ATDC to 16°BTDC.<br />Don't forget, you will have to put your Thunderbolt V system into base timing mode to check/adjust timing and also to adjust the mixture on the carb.
 

milkyway

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 31, 2004
Messages
535
Re: Notch for timing is missing

Thanks a bunch Don. I saw the groove but nothing else. Do I have to remove anything to reveal these? I have looked and looked, up and down, side to side and couldn't find them. Thanks again.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,581
Re: Notch for timing is missing

If all you have is a 0° mark on the timing cover, you can set the timing without having the timing tab or decal by using an "advance" timing light.
 

milkyway

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 31, 2004
Messages
535
Re: Notch for timing is missing

Ok-- So there is a regular timing and advanced timing. Let me first look again if I can find all these marks. Do I have to remove anything to find these? There's really nothing outside except for 1 obvious notch on the engine cover.
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Notch for timing is missing

Like I said, there is a DECAL over the line on the balancer. It may have come off. It only went to 16° BTDC, and that is not enough for advance timing.<br />If the decal is missing, you may have to order one from a Mecruiser dealer. I thought I had one here and was going to take a picture of it next to a ruler so you just measure and scribe a mark. But I sure can't find it.<br />The easiest thing to do is get an advance type timing light that bruce mentioned. That way you can measure how much advance you have. But just makeing some marks on the balancer would have worked.<br />As far as having to remove anything to see it, I have no idea on your boat. I do know that on an engine with normal access you can see the timing marks with the engine running.<br /><br /><br />
Timing%20decal.png
<br /><br />Here is a better picture of the marks.<br /><br />
Cast%20timing%20mark%20on%20cover.PNG
 

milkyway

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 31, 2004
Messages
535
Re: Notch for timing is missing

There is no decal whatsoever. And I have been looking for those lines and I couldn't see them. I will continue this quest tomorrow. And will look into this advanced timing light. I have to know how to use this thing given with what's missing before I place an order. Thanks a lot.
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Notch for timing is missing

Originally posted by rodbolt:<br /> its a simple math problem
Yea. Should have done that from the start.<br />Pi (aka 3.1416) times Diameter in inches (in thousands and measured accuratly) = Circumference<br />Circumference divided by 360 = distance in inches for 1°. <br />Multiply that times the number of degrees you want and make the mark on the vibration dampner.
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Notch for timing is missing

sorry had to swicth keyboards:). spilled soda all over the old one yesterday, so far I have washed it twice, we will see if it lives.<br /> going back to your balancer.<br />if you figgue the circumference and divide that by 360 it gives the distance around for each degree.<br />dia X 3.14(Pi) will give circumference. lets assume the circumference is 25inches, 25"/360* is roughly .069" per degree.<br /> say ya need 25 degrees. 25x.o69 is 1.75 inches. cut a strip of paper that long. lay one end at the TDC groove on the balancer and make a paint mark at the other. presto. instant timing mark.<br />you can also use a dial indicator if you know the engine stroke.<br /> engine timing is not hoodo nor voodo.<br />all it does is insure the spark occures when the piston is at the optimum point in its compression stroke.light the fuel mix to early and compression pressure spikes,combustion temps become uncontrolable and the fuel goes bang and the resulatant pressure wave(detonation) eats pistons, to late and the mix is still activly burning when the exhaust valve opens and creates burned exhaust valves and exhaust components.<br />if the timing cover tab is missing you will need to find TDC with a dial indicator on the piston and make a reference mark on the timing cover or other convenient location. it can be on your roof rafter as long as it never changes.<br />while timing is rather critical most the time its plus or minus 2 degrees. gives you 4 degrees to miss it by.<br />with todays fuels I try to miss on the retarded side for most applications but its just as easy to hit it.<br /> I have two stevens eluminator 84 lights with advance and tach functions. I just sent one to south america cause I am mathematically challenged.<br />however I showed the tech down south how to use his light even if it was a 30 dollar cheapie.<br /> I still have a 30 dollar penske my late father gave me at age 13 back about 1974.<br />I sometimes even use a cloth measuring tape typically used for sewing to measure circumference.<br />dont get so hung up on references you forget what the goal is.<br />the hard part is remember which side of the TDC mark on the balancer to lay the paper strip. however if ya go both ways its harder to miss.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,581
Re: Notch for timing is missing

Wow guys!!! <br /><br />I hope you really have him convinced to get an advance timing light now!! :) <br /><br />When I start talking like that my wife wonders why she ever married an engineer!!!
 

milkyway

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 31, 2004
Messages
535
Re: Notch for timing is missing

I think I have gathered the knowledge to do the timing. I know now what inductive means. But that timing-dead-center decal is not there, only the timing mark/notch/reference point is there. <br /><br />Rodbolt said that "if the timing cover tab is missing you will need to find TDC with a dial indicator on the piston and make a reference mark". Is this something I can do or do I need a mechanic to establish this dead on spot? My carburetor cover says that timing is BTDC10 degs.
 

paulrfrancisco

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
341
Re: Notch for timing is missing

10 degrees BTDC is at which point in the rotation the spark fires on the #1 cylender...<br /><br />RodBolt is right that if the timing tab is missing you have no true 0 reference.. and you'd be guessing... without a dial gauge you could be you +/- 5 degrees - at least.. you'd be better off power timing it than guess at 0.
 

milkyway

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 31, 2004
Messages
535
Re: Notch for timing is missing

Paul -- what do you mean by power timing?
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Notch for timing is missing

Forget about power timing, forget about trying to find TDC of #1 piston, you have to find the timing marks. Forget the decal, it probably left a long time ago. The groove in the harmonic balancer, along with the cast in boss with the notch in it in the timing chain cover for 0° TDC, IS there. You just haven't found it. So it's time to start looking till you find it. It's only a small area on the PORT side of the engine (on the front)
 

milkyway

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 31, 2004
Messages
535
Re: Notch for timing is missing

I found the notch in front of the engine, it's like V shape. About 1/4th of the harmomic balancer, that thing that is behind the belt pulley and turns with the belt pulley has been painted with something like light gray in color, and it could had been there. I will look again tomorrow.
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Notch for timing is missing

That "Line" on the harmonic balancer is a groove cut in the pulley. Not just a painted on line.<br />It's probably 1/16" to 3/32" wide and maybe 1/16" deep. It would take a lot of paint to cover it.
 

milkyway

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 31, 2004
Messages
535
Re: Notch for timing is missing

Don - when I turned off the engine, this painted area on the balancer stopped right adjacent to the engine's cover V notch ( books calls it reference pointer). There is this groove or canal running across the balancer and it's position is right on the spot of the engine's reference pointer. I ran a flat screw drive on the canal to remove the paint. Thishas to be it.
 
Top