NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

[PW2]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

So, according to the article, we are outsourcing our oversight of this program to some Belgian bankers?
Instead of a court, or congress or something?

And Pointer, you are only half right about the right and wars. The right certainly knows how to start wars. They just don't know how to end them.

 

[PW2]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

I do find really curious the double standard that seems to be at work here.
First of all, this had to be "leaked" by someone. Why no outrage at the leaker?

Second, leaks seem to be very selective. When Scooter Libby leaked the cherry picked intelligence about WMD's to Judith Miller of the NY Times in the run up to the war, and her articles trumpeting the need for an immediate military response, we never heard any outrage then.

Or when Rove and Libby leaked the name of Valerie Plame as a CIA agent, there has been no outrage then., apparently because those leaks served a very specific political purpose.

Third, the Times did sit on the NSA story for over a year at the request of the government until it became apparent their claims were not true.

Rolmops, I fully understand your comment about trusting AlQaida more than our government.

When OBL says he wants to kill infidels, I believe him.

When our government says something, you have to try and figure out why they are saying what they are saying, and what they are really trying to accomplish when they say it.

I really hope they bring charges of Treason against the editors of the NY Times. Maybe with a full blown trial we can begin to get to the bottom of what the heck is going on within this administration.

 

[treedancer]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

Why all this uproar over the New York Times article? That is old news, the Wall Street Journal and Los Angeles Times first reported on the money-monitoring program, Why isn’t their any outrage against them?
President Bush vowed days after the Sept. 11 attacks to follow the money as a trail to the terrorists. Even the dimmest bulb of a terrorist would have a clue that the money was being monitored.Heres a link if anybody cares to take a look. Of course it is by that notorious liberal New York Times, not the Weekly Standard.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/29/washington/29intel.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
I wish that some people would step back and take a look at what they are advocating. Without the work reporters, editors and other news organizations, Americans wouldn’t know about the National Security Agency conducting surveillance on American citizens, and now the Treasury Department poring over personal banking records.
So we have a few interrogators torturing prisoners at detention camps, after all were exporting freedom and democracy aren’t we? :$Lets see we have the C.I.A. operating secret prisons abroad, well that is only until we catch all of the terrorists we wont do that when we get all of them,"WILL WE" ?How many on this board think that this will not be used for political purposes? Think about it for a bit.
I know I will not give any of my freedoms up willingly, kind of like the frog that jumps into the cool water on the stove, over low heat, pretty soon frog is cooked. That is what is happing to or freedoms if we curb the free press.
Is this what the majority on this board thinks that freedom is about? Sounds like were trying to export freedom and democracy but giving up a bunch of it in the process. Have such disclosures endangered American lives in the "war on terror"?Idont think they have.

 

[gonefishie]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

I do loves the amount of freedom us citizen have but too much freedom isn't good as in this case. I'm surprised that ole Salvatore didn't get a service call and somebody already got whacked before all of this mess hit front page.:|8)

 

[Kwas]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

As the left wingers here are misstating, the NY Times that there reason for printing the story is they felt that it was the peoples right to know. Then in further defense they said that everyone knew anyway. More of the same BS, either we knew or we didn't. The NY Times are traitors and defenders of terrorists.

I see that the left wing wacko traitors here are on the side of the terrorists too. You should be ashamed!!

 

[alden135]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

You're either with us, or against us. It's that simple.

 

[rottenray6402]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

Rolmops, the mess we are in is because crazy people flew airplanes into buildings not because of right wing policy. I don't understand the liberal mindset that can't connect the dots between Iran and Iraq. Do you really think that the insurgents in Iraq are different from Al Quida? They are one and the same. Please realize that these people want us dead, pure and simple, and I for one am glad that the fighting is in Iraq instead of New York or Chicago.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

rolmops, I am not only frustrated I am mad. What the right has done or not done has nothing, zero, zip, Nada to do with that rag compromising an ongoing covert intelligence program. NOTHING.

If they want to print an article about how pathetic the administrations efforts have been, I support them 150%. If they want to finger members of the administration for incompetence (which they do daily) I can at least understand that. But with rights comes responsibility, and as comfortable as they are wrapping themselves in the rights afforded them by our system of government they not only ignore but flaunt their com tempt for the responsibility that comes with it. Freedom of the press is not absolute.

Those of you worried about the leak, WHO KNOWS WHO THE LEAK IS????? THE NY TIMES. But again this false premise of an absolute free press is trotted out. Makes me want to puke. This is a political agenda acted out without regards for the consequences because other peoples loss of life is OK when your arrogance over your "rights" supersedes their right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

This is what happens when people forget that when our country succeeds, we all succeed. Selling papers is supposed to be a by-product of reporting. You know, journalistic ethics.

I would love to hear how those of you who wanted to castrate Bush over the Plume issue can somehow do a complete 180 on this one....

Tree dancer, just wait until your rights are taken away because we were just too lazy or pathetic to recognize a threat and too "sensitive" to do anything about it. And please share with us where these secret prisons are by city. That conspiracy theory was even discredited by the EU investigation. Torture??? Torture??? Please go tell the wives, sons, daughters, parents of our soldiers who had their heads removed and their bodies booby trapped about your theories on government sanctioned torture that nobody can prove. Why are we tearing down our country when we are trying to share with the world FREEDOM. They can elect a dictatorship if they want, but a dictatorship never peacefully surrenders to equality. What you celebrate by speaking your mind you would deny others because they have no experience with it. And that sir is an elitists position.

Other than the democrats getting us into WWI, WWII, the Korean War, Vietnam, Bosnia (1 year and out and we are still there), How about our bravery in the Bay of Pigs fiasco, a fine example of leadership. So much to be proud of on the democratic side.

Reagan won the cold war never fired a shot, then there was El Salvador, Grenada. Bush won the first Iraqi war, but the UN prevented complete victory. Who got us out of Vietnam???? Oh yea, not a democrat, but in reality, time and circumstances dictate actions. With that said spare us the right wing war monger garbage. Nobody wants war, ever. But ignoring it as an option is what puts dictators in power and keeps them in power unchecked regardless how many mass murders or rapes, or acts of war they initiate.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

To me it was sort of a Nothing story anyhow. Monitoring international funds I fully expected. I even expect our accounts to somehow be flagged if they intermingle with suspect accounts. Trust me, my accounts are fodder for Comedy Central, not the CIA. The "story" is the story here. I'm seeing far more right wing protest to the story than it deserves with the liberals and fence sitters saying "Just more of the same" and watching the NeoCons making fools of themselves crying foul. It's sort of a "Me thinks thou dost protest too loudly" thing.
We're just sitting back and watching them squirm. Fabulous entertainment!

 

[POINTER94]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

Hey Willy, check out PAGE 33 of thursdays USA today. A kind of retraction about the long distance networks sharing call records with the government. Yep, guess it didn't happen, good thing the correction was buried on page 33 so the world would know. But hey they threw in the caviat that even tho they don't have the facts they think the story is still correct. THE DAN RATHER DEFENSE. Freedom of the press, yippee!!!

 

[12Footer]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

The treason perpetrated by alNew York Times is well-documented. This thread documents the absolute totality of the left's investment in coalition defeat, along with pledging their allegiances in this global war where they have!

It just hardens my resolve to vote for DOG CATCHER ON UP at every election. To the DEVIL with alNewYorkTimes -- To turn so completely against one's own country along party lines is baffling to me, yet here it is in black and white! And for what? In defense of tratorous journalism?!

From SW Florida, A proud member of iboats since 2001

 

[treedancer]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.


Pointer my rights will never be taken while I still have blood running through my veins. As for being too lazy, too pathetic, to recognize a threat and too sensitive, to do any thing about it ,wow.

In my mind I am doing something about it, I am pointing out the folly of the current right wing thinking that got us in Iraq in the first place. Afghanistan yes we had every right to be there, but Iraq in there on a bunch of lies, not in my opinion. I believe that you would never consider me the touchy sensitive type if you had ever met me.

Now for the part about my source of the secret prisons, but you will have to reciprocate and give me your source that said the EU investigation was discredited. My source was here this a little of what is in the link. Note the date (last Wednesday) what is the date on your source?

STRASBOURG, FRANCE
Thursday, Jun 29, 2006,Page 6
The EU's top justice official acknowledged suspected terrorists had been transferred to US intelligence agents on European territory, and said governments had a duty to determine whether these actions were illegal
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2006/06/29/2003316294
Heres a few other web sites that will maybe help but they are rather dated. They all have some information that might be of interest to you on your search for truth.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/01/AR2005110101644.html
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1375123

It seems that the Washington Post is a little more discreet with there info that the New York times, seems that they would rather not disclose there information, at the request of senior U.S. officials. (I guess that there a bit gun-shy after Bob Woodward

 

[Blackgang]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

How can the administration claim we are in Iraq for the nations security, when we can't or won't secure our own borders. The left screams racism if there is talk of border security, and then gives the enemy aid and information. When will we realize that we must defeat the fifth column in the US to win the war, and once again be the great nation we were.
P.S. To hell with how the rest of the world thinks of us.

 

[CJY]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

I am really surprised nobody has concern for the point PW2 has brought up. The info was leaked to the times by somebody "in the know."

My concern is the reason for the leak, or the fact that more intelligence has again been given out. Unbelievable that the press is being blamed for this story. Treason??? I agree, but for the person that told the times of this, not the messenger. That is their job, print news. If this admin does not want the press to print something, THEN THEY PROBABLY SHOULD NOT TELL THEM THE STORY, and there will be nothing to print. For one reason or another, I believe it was meant as a smoke screen specifically planted by this admin. One reason may be with all the "leak" talk in recent history by this admin, they simply could not afford another similar controversy. Rather than W having to explain the leak to America, once again. He decided to go on the offensive and immediately attack the times for their story to distract us from their real concern...another leak.

I guess it worked, on some of us.

 

[CJY]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

I guess I was still not ready to let this one go.


Furthermore, W himself told us money being wired to and from the US was being monitored shortly after 9/11 as a way to locate terror cells in the US. Why are they making a huge deal of it now? Hmmmm?


Hmmmm, I wonder if the "non-issue" of the Times story was a smoke screen for say; poor borders, the lack of an energy bill as promised, a revamped social security system as promised, and the simple fact that along with the things I stated, this admin has done nothing as they promised. And all of this with elections right around the corner.

To sum it up, this admin has accomplished squat with a republican controlled congress. In an attempt to cover this up(ya right), they have chosen to blame their lack of production on the NY Times. I wonder if November being right around the corner is beginning to scare them. People do crazy stuff in a moment of panic.

Let me tell you about the story of the ant and grasshopper. You see, while the ant worked diligently all summer long in preparing for the long winter, the grasshopper played and did nothing in preparation for it. Now, as it is beginning to get cold outside, the grasshopper...... Ahhh, you know the story. Just place W in for the place of the grasshopper.

 

[PW2]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

As a kid that liked to be involved in snowball fights, distraction is a wonderful tool.

I used to lob a snowball at someone, and while they were watching that one, I'd fire one in at them---I could get them right in the face before the other one even landed.

The funny thing was you could use the same technique over and over again, and it would work again and again.

 

[12Footer]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

um ok. That's an odd derailment,PW.... but alrighty then. When i was a kid we didn't have snow so we used rocks. They hurt like HELL when they hit you, so we learned early to be the "hitt-er" and not the "hitt-ee".
I used to carry a small pocket knife to school too, but what can i say?


From SW Florida, A proud member of iboats since March 25,2001
The old me

 

[rottenray6402]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

I get more confused as time goes by here, now tell us again what plans the democrats have to fix Social Security, an energy bill, and tightening our borders? I don't remember hearing any constructive ideas from your side. The only thing I've heard is how Bush hasn't done this or that. Perhaps PW or CJY would be kind enough to tell us your sides ideas and may be we can tip off W on what he should be doing? It seems odd that the eight years prior to W nothing got done on Social Security, borders, etc. The only thing that happened on Slick Willies watch was our pull out of Somalia so it encouraged the scum there to believe we would cut and run regardless. OH, that is exactly what the dems want us to do now isn't it? I bet you guys used to give your milk money to the school yard bullies hoping they would someday leave you alone. Never happens though.

 

[CJY]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

rottenray,

W made the promises, not the democrats. W was elected, not the democrats. We got to sit and listed to W explain how he was going to fix these things if elected. Well, he was elected and then re-elected....and ta da, nothing accomplished. If you want to know how the democrats would fix the mess, then you should have elected one. Don't expect them to bail W out of his mess. They were not elected to that position. 51% of America told the democrats they wanted W along with a republican congress. Well, those 51% got what they paid for, while at the same time, we are all paying for it.

I never made any mention of Iraq or any other world "bully". What does pulling out of Iraq have to do with his campaign platform? Oh ya, I forgot, you are trying that smoke screen trick aren't you(only works on republicans)? So now you want to blame the democrats for W's inability to get anything accomplished. It's all the democrats fault because they want us out of Iraq? Sounds like this is what you are saying.

To clarify, the democrats have wanted us out of Iraq many lives ago, and only now W is beginning to see the wisdom of their words, as he is beginning to talk of bringing them home. What has changed in Iraq recently? Violence is still a daily occurence at a heavy rate in Iraq. Iraq can't or still won't defend themselves. Nothing has changed in Iraq, yet W talks of bringing soldiers home. Hmmmm, many lives could have been spared had he decided long ago to do this.

It's not W's resolve that has kept us in Iraq, it is his bullheaded idiocy. He decided long ago that nobody knows more than himself when it comes to war. He was going to get even at any cost. Well, November is right around the corner, and Iraq is still in terrible shape. Now the republicans are feeling the crunch of possibly losing control of congress, and talks of a troup reduction has begun. Resolve my butt.

 

[CJY]

Re: NY Times, All the news that assists Al Qaeda.

I guess one thing W was successful at was keeping the N. Koreans in check.

W removed a man from power with no nuclear capabilities, and left another very real threat continue to develope them. Good thinking.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060705/ap_on_re_as/nkorea_missile