Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

jtmarten

Master Chief Petty Officer
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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

An adjustable spanner wrench may get the holes and turn it.
 

bigskiohio

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May 3, 2008
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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

i always tighten mine to much and last time i had to use a strap wrench just crushed it till it wouldnt grush sny more then it spun.
 

LAC_STS

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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

Well I'm leavin the boat right now. Been here since about 2PM. I'm so frustrated. :mad:

I bought an adjustable pin wrench and a couple other different things and I can't get anything to work.

I read that removing the rubber seal will repeats some pressure and make it easier to come off. I couldn't get the whole seal off but I did manage to cut it and get some pieces of it off. It kept breaking when I would finally get ahold of it and try to remove it.

I guess I am just gonna get a mobile mechanic to come out and get it off tom. I called around today and one guy said he would some it for $70


I dunno. I hope it's not like this next time. I bought a K&N filter that has the nut on the end. I bought it before I started the oil change. Go figure.
 

Allbutwet

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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

Might see if the wrench for a four inch grinder might work. That is if you have one. If not I would suggest using a dremel with a small cut off disc and carefully cut a single cut up the side of it to split it. Be sure to cover anything that might catch on fire.
 

Mr_Shamrock

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Oct 8, 2009
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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

I'm not looking at your motor, but if it looks like the picture that was posted and your turning it clock wise you are tightening it. Turn it counter clockwise.
 

fishrdan

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Jan 25, 2008
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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

I have a real old, real long, real crappy, standard screw driver that I have used a couple times to knock the filter base off. It's easier than a chisel since you have a long handle to work with.

The pin wrench sounds like a good idea too. You could probably make up something out of a piece of steel with a couple 1/4" bolts going through it, to mate up with the filter holes as Bruce mentioned. I've done this several times when I didn't have a tool, and had to improvise...
 

Lou C

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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

Man that's a tough one...I hope whoever installed that filter did not cross thread it...I've been changing oil filters since 1972 and I never had one that hard to take off...
 

LAC_STS

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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

I'm not looking at your motor, but if it looks like the picture that was posted and your turning it clock wise you are tightening it. Turn it counter clockwise.

That's not my engine that's something someone else posted.


I'm so sick of messing with it. I do have a dremmel with metal cut off blades. I might try that tom. Right now I'm thinking just to have someone come do it tom.

Might change tom when I wake up. But right now I'm sick of dealing with it.
 

ftl900

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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

I did exactly the same things on my 350, much in the same order, and got the same result as you. The needle nose pliers broke off one entire jaw but didn't loosen anything.

What FINALLY worked for me (YMMV) is hanging 2 allen wrenches up into the filter ring holes- the largest ones I could fit into the holes. I worked the short end of the L shaped allen wrench into a filter ring hole, and then did the same with another allen wrench near the other side of the filter ring so the long ends hung down freely.

The idea is to have two strong axis points hanging down that won't slip out of the filter ring under pressure, to which I could apply leverage without breaking.

Then I got a box end wrench (or similar choke point) and slid up an inch or so onto the base of both allen wrenches, so they cross at the bottom. This keeps the 2 allen wrenches from just spreading apart as you apply pressure.

Then I applied an equal amount of leverage and swearing, and was amazed at how much force was required. But it eventually budged a bit, and it was then that I knew I'd won... at least that battle.

Good luck with it. I hope this helps.
 

cr2k

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Mar 19, 2009
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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

Only has to hold 60 psi not the boat together. Don't tighten it so tight next time.
 

Dshow

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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

Hang in there, you can get it! This could happen to any DIY'r. A picture would be worth a thousand words to let us know what your dealing with and how much room you have to work... Just thinkin' out loud, if you could just get just one point away from the center, either an allen wrench in a hole or even dremel a spot on the edge and put a screw driver in it, then assuming the center threads are not exposed, twist using a some sort of a pry bar between the center and the point on the edge...?
 

LAC_STS

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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

ITS OFF!!!!!!!


A friend of mine who works for a mechanic had his boss (the mechanic) stop by this morning.

He said he used a chisel and a mini sledge hammer and just worked it for a little while to get it to start turning.

He said it wasn't cross threaded and I didn't mess anything up in there.

Now I can continue with my oil change that should have been done 2 days ago. Lol

I will post pics when I get home.
 

LAC_STS

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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

Here is a pic of the filter base that I was trying to get off. I forgot to take a pic of the place where it mounts so you guys could see how little room there was and what was going on.

Any ways its off and I put new oil and a new filter (obviously) in it.


The manual says to use straight 30 weight oil. I am in south florida so I used straight 40 which is what the place I bought the engine from said to use. Especially since I will be changing it before the summer is over after another 50 hours which will come soon. I use the boat a lot.


When I put the new filter and oil in it and fired it up the oil pressure gauge only took about 1-2 seconds before it jumped up there. It used to read about 30 at idle and then about 60 at 3 or 4 K RPMs.

Now it is reading 60 at idle and jumps to 80 when I was reving it to about 2500 RPMs. I haven't taken it out so I didn't rev it any more or drive it yet. Its in the water at a slip so no muffs.


Is this something to be concerned about?




IMG_0433.jpg
 

Lou C

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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

Well I know for sure that OMC had recommended straight 30 for their sterndrive engines and I use straight 30 Chevron Delo 400 in mine...my cold oil pressure is 40 at idle and hot idle is about 20 or so....now I am in LI NY so it doesn't get that hot here in summer...often not even hitting 90 degrees...
But Mercruiser using the same base GM engines recommended straight 30 below 50*F and straight 40 for over 50*F before they came out with their 25/40 oil...so I don't really think you'd have a problem...those oil pressure gauges are not the most accurate anyway and I'd try it letting the engine warm up and then see what your hot idle oil press and hot running oil pressure is...I bet it will drop to a level that is more normal...but if not you can always change back to the straight 30...
 

Silvertip

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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

BruceB's suggestion about a metal bar with two bolts in it works like a champ. I've done it before and can attest to its effectiveness. Simply buy a new filter and use it for the pattern. Space the bolts accordingly at one end of the bar. Use as big a bolts as will fit into the cap of the filter. If this engine was painted before the filter was installed, it is the paint that causes the sticking regardless how loose or tight the filter is. NEVER paint that flange.
 

ChrisCraftJohnny

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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

There is something else to consider here. Not sure if you guys care, but, there is a situation that can happen when the threads are machined to the wrong tolerance.

I am a precision machinist with 18 years experience. I have cut just about every thread you can imagine to the correct specs.

The most used class of thread is a class 2. Every kind of thread the average joe has ever seen or used is a class 2. The class 2 is toleranced to be a on/off type of fit. It's made to be a service-able fastener. It has the correct slop (if you will) in the pitch diameters and enough clearance in the major/minor diameters to make it come off with nominal force.

Now, Lets talk about class 3 threads. Class 3 is a interference/wrench fit thread. It will go together with a wrench and it will not back off. And believe me, heat, pressure whatever will not budge it out. This design is only used in one-time installs of critical devices. I have made components for US subs that require the class 3 fit.

There is a case, when you machine a thread out of tolerance, that the mating pieces will go on together smooth as silk. But when you try to remove the pieces, it will not budge. You can put the largest wrench you want on it. heat it, bang it, whatever. It's not coming off unless you weaken the joint with some kind of cutting. You see, the thread needs a certain amount of clearance. When the threads go together it"s moving in one direction. When you try to remove an improper fit thread, the thread mechanically locks itself against the lack of backlash. Without that bit of clearance/backlash, you basicly crush the threads into each other and the pieces will not come apart.

In this filters case. One of two problems may exist:

1. The filter"s internal thread was cut undersized (worn tap in production) and caused the mechanical lock.

2. Your engines filter mount (external thread) was machined wrong and will cause this problem every time.

If you think this is not possible because Fram and GM are so acurate.....
Think again. Because to fall out of a class 2 thread tolerance at these sizes only takes .003" to .005" (three to five thousands of an inch) and you can expect to see this phenomenom. It happens. I have seen it many times.

Johnny
 

LAC_STS

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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

Wow

I dont even want to think about it being that hard every time. I might set the whole boat on fire if I have to go through this again.
 

nofuss

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May 15, 2010
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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

bit late this time, but in future use your strap wrench as close to the sealing end of the filter as possible. if u can get it to hold on the very rim thats the best spot. that way if any thing crushes it would be the base. unlikely, however if it did it would be easy to cut it off.
actually if u have space a small pry bar placed in the space where u were able to get the seal out might bend it up enough that u would be able to cut it off. hammer and chisel, dremmel or good shears. I dont like the dremmel idea too much due to the fine metal particles, so if u go that way be careful.
 

Allbutwet

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Re: Oh man. HUGE mess with oil filter.

Glad to hear it's off.
 
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