Ok a question about points systems….

Lou C

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As it turns out my running problems which I thought were fuel system related really was a gradually failing ignition coil. I installed a known good coil and its starts and runs fine on the water hose. So because the coil I was using before was getting really hot I wanted to figure out if it was a bad coil or something else causing the oil to go bad. So I hooked up a voltmeter to the + terminal on the coil and checked voltage readings with it in the following conditions:
Ignition on, engine off 5.2 V
Engine cranking 12v-10.5 V
Engine running 9.6 V
Charging voltage 14.4 V
So it looks like the resistance wire is reducing current & voltage as it should and the coil temp appears to be normal. So what do you all think?IMG_4606.jpegvoltmeter on the left is measuring volts at the coil +, second voltmeter is measuring battery charging voltage…..
 
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Bt Doctur

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Sounds correct as long as the coil does require a ballast resistor.
Some coils can run 12 volts to them like mercruiser coils and accell
 

Lou C

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Thought of that too, it's right where it should be. Since dwell and gap are inversely related, too small of a gap will result in too much dwell time. I try to set it at the wider end of the spec so it stays in spec longer. 39* + or - 2* for the GM 4.3 V6.
 

Chris1956

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Why was the voltage low when ign on and engine not running? Shouldn't it be nearly the same as engine running? Maybe the coil is internally shorted? That would cause it to heat up, I would think.

Reducing the voltage to the coil is done to reduce the burning and pitting of the points. You might check same for damage.
 

Lou C

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That’s a good question but I don’t know the answer to it! However I tried it several times & it was always the same. I’m I think the only way to figure it out is to check to see if it changes when the points are open vs closed.
The other thing might be the way digital meters “average” voltage readings. I wonder what I’d get if I used an analog meter instead. Might try that next….
 

Scott Danforth

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battery only voltage is always lower than alternator voltage. thats why when the engine is running, the voltage increases..... (and lights get brighter, and fans run faster, etc)

its also why the coil voltage was 5.2 on battery only and went up to 9.6 volts.
 

Lou C

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Makes sense though I am surprised that the difference was that much…,
 

Fun Times

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Alright, I broke a rule but this should be fun…

I asked AI on a points ignition system, does the coil voltage rise and drop depending on where points are at rest then sent it a link to the thread.😳🙂

AI first said…(Yes, the voltage at the positive terminal of the ignition coil rises and drops depending on whether the breaker points are open or closed) then it went in to how and why, etc..

Then,
The user in the forum thread is experiencing exactly what you asked about. The reason Lou C’s voltage is low (5.2V) when the engine is off is because the engine happened to stop with the breaker points at rest in the closed position.

Why the Voltage Reads 5.2V vs. 9.6V
  • Points Closed (Engine Off): When the points are closed at rest, current continuously flows through the primary circuit. Because the battery is the only power source (approx. 12.0V–12.6V) and isn't being boosted by the alternator, the continuous current creates a massive voltage drop across the resistance wire. This pulls the voltage at the coil's positive terminal down to that 5.2V reading. [1]
  • Points Open (Engine Off): If Lou C were to bump the engine so that the points rested in the open position, the circuit would break. Current would stop flowing, the voltage drop across the resistance wire would disappear, and the voltmeter at the coil's positive terminal would jump right up to full battery voltage (around 12V).
  • Engine Running (9.6V): When the engine is running, the alternator spins and raises the system's charging voltage to 14.4V. Because the points are rapidly opening and closing, the digital voltmeter averages out the voltage spikes, resulting in the 9.6V reading.

A Warning for Lou C's Situation
Leaving the ignition switch "On" while the engine is off and the points are closed (as it is during his 5.2V test) will cause the ignition coil and the resistance wire to get extremely hot. If left in this state for too long, it can bake the internal insulation of the new coil, boil its oil, or melt the points block.

Would you like to draft a forum reply to Lou C explaining exactly how the points' position is causing his 5.2V reading, or do you need help calculating what his exact dwell angle should be?

Here is a response you can post directly to the forum thread to help Lou C understand exactly why his voltage is dropping to 5.2V:


Lou, you actually hit the nail on the head in your last comment—the 5.2V reading is happening because your engine stopped with the points in the closed position.
When the engine is off and the ignition is turned to "On" with the points closed, you have a constant, uninterrupted path to ground. Current is continuously being drawn through your resistance wire. Because the system is running solely on battery voltage (around 12.0V–12.6V without the alternator spinning), that constant current draw creates a massive voltage drop across the resistance wire, pulling the voltage at the coil (+) down to 5.2V.
If you were to bump the engine over just enough to open the points and break that ground connection, current would stop flowing entirely. Without current flowing, there is no voltage drop across the resistance wire, and your meter at the coil (+) would immediately jump up to full battery voltage (around 12V).
When the engine is running, the alternator bumps your baseline system voltage up to 14.4V. Because the points are rapidly opening and closing, your digital voltmeter is averaging out those open/closed states against the higher alternator output, which gives you that perfect 9.6V reading.
Your readings show that your resistance wire is working exactly as it should! Just be careful not to leave the key in the "On" position for too long while testing with the engine off—leaving the points closed like that keeps the primary circuit energized and will rapidly make both the resistance wire and your new coil get extremely hot.



Would you like me to help you look up the factory ignition specifications (like point gap or timing) for this GM 4.3 V6 engine, or are you working on troubleshooting a similar ignition issue on your own project?
 

Lou C

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Thanks for this! It makes sense with what Scott said the part I didn’t quite understand is the actual amp draw in the coil primary, which is enough to lower the bolt reading to that extent.
And yes I did know you never leave a points ignition system with the key in the ON position, the same is true for the earliest version of the Petronix from what I heard.
This is great info for anyone with an old points system whether it’s in a boat or classic car.
 

Mc Tool

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Re your comment about digital meters averaging things out .... I was thinking about the fact that they provide an RMS reading , and was wondering how that would play out :unsure::unsure:
 
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