OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

[LubeDude]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

See if you can borrow a 17P four blade from someone.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

Just be patient. At 5200 youre nowhere near what that motor can produce.

 

[TwoBallScrewBall]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

Hi guys, back again. Here are the results. <br /><br />Got out on the bay with the ballistic on the engine, engine at top hole, and it planed off real quick now. Huge difference. <br /><br />Also, and this is a big plus for me, I saw almost 30 mph at 3800rpm. More like 28.5-29, but a big improvement over the SST at about 26-27. At 4200Rpm which was still a good sounding rpm, I was bumping along at around 32. <br /><br />Now, top end is still a mystery. Wide open and trimmed out was 40mph at 5200rpm. Wellcraft says this boat shoudl see 47mph at 6000 rpm top end. I'm worried. I ran a compression check to ease my mind about that and it looks OK.<br /><br />I can trim up to just over 1/2 way up, which is futher than I could with the engine down two holes deeper on the transom. Explain that one. <br /><br />I should have the 15X17 aluminum prop tomorrow, but since the weather looks like it won't cooperate it might be Sunday by the time I test it.<br /><br />Now, I got to wondering out there, so I pulled the cowling and started pulling plug wires to see if I could notice an RMP drop on all cylinders. First wire, no big difference. Maybe a little. Second wire, I pulled it off and got the crap shocked out of me. Put it back on and the engine picked up a little rpm. Third wire, I pulled it and the terminal stayed on the plug. I shut down the engine, fixed the wire as best I could (had some kind of coiled wire with a pointy end that stuck in the wire) and reinstalled. I'm going to get new wires since these look cracked and old. Maybe that'll help my top R's a little. I know, I'm dreaming, but who knows. <br /><br />Going to go pull the wires and ohm them out. What resistance should I see on them?<br /><br />Thanks again!<br /><br />I can trim up to just over 1/2 way up, which is futher than I could with the engine down two holes deeper on the transom. Explain that one. <br /><br />I should have the 15X17 aluminum prop tomorrow, but since the weather looks like it won't cooperate it might be Sunday by the time I test it.

 

[TwoBallScrewBall]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

Wires all ohmed out at 0 ohms, with the exception of 1 wire that I had to wiggle to get a reading on, then when it did read it was 2-3 ohms. <br /><br />I have a set of Accel 8mm high performance wires (the yellow ones) with boots that will work. I had this type of wire on my I/O on my last boat. Is it safe to use these or is there a good reason I should go out and buy an evinrude set?

 

[ob]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

If the accel wires you speak of are carbon conductor type or supressor,no.Use only solid wire core plug wires.Napa sells some decent ones for outboard applications already made up for a reasonable price.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

For what it may be worth, Steve, I have played with several of the Ballistics-eng 4" up, on transom, 5" back, 10" back, etc..And the only data that was consistant was that they all pulled hard out of the hole, so this told me to raise it up and test....Had problems with blow-out when raised...I never could find a "Good" place for the Ballistic to perform "as would be expected".<br />All of the testing I done at that time was with 3-blade versions, both V4 and V6.<br />Maybe Dhadley has some tricks to share with ya on that prop, but personally, I would toss the Ballistic...Just my opinion.

 

[TwoBallScrewBall]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

OB - they are that type. I'll go get the right ones. <br /><br />Walleye - With the engine at the top hole I'm actually pretty happy with the ballistic now. Holeshot is as good as the vented OMC SST, and the ballistic is not vented (yet.....). I just wish I knew what is holding my top end back. Bottom of the boat looks good, painted and a few small spots where the paint is flaking off, so maybe that's part of the problem. The fact that this motor is in the low 5's with a 14.5X19 kind of concerns me when the spec sheet for the boat with this engine and OMC prop says it should hit 6000. I'll have a 15X17 aluminum to try today, i'm going to see how I like that one as soon as it stops raining.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

Not everyone is as worried about the best performance our boats can have. Personally I think it would be great if all outboards came with an electric or hydralic jack plate of sorts. It has allways amazed me as to what just the slightest adjustment can mean to performance. Raising, lowering, setback, cup, pitch, different props, etc can do for performance pro and con. It can be either very rewarding or very frustrating especially if you have a person with essentially the same boat continually kicking your AZZ.<br /><br />When I had my 15' Ranger with an 85 HP Evenrude, there was a guy that had the same boat, even the same color. My boat was almost 5 MPH faster than his, It was all in the setup and prop, and the oil I was using top and bottom. He even accused me uf having a 115 with an 85 cowling. His ran about 45 MPH, and Mine ran about 50 MPH.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

Steve, if you like what that prop does, by all means, keep it. Maybe I came across wrong...what I'm saying is there are several props out there that will blow that Ballistic out of the water, performance-wise, but if it's giving what you want, maybe you found a place it will work.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

So what was the top speed and rpm wih the B-tic?

 

[TwoBallScrewBall]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

Yeah this is an adventure. I just got word that the 15X17 is at my house, so maybe I'll get lucky and get to test that one tonight. <br /><br />Walleye, I took no offense to what you said at all. I'm looking for the most I can get out of the boat and engine. I just happen to have the OMC and Ballistic props in hand. I'm seeing the same top end with the OMC and Baliistic, just at different RPM's, so I'm starting to think maybe it's something else holding it back. Maybe my bottom paint is in worse shape than I think it is. I'll take a closer look. Maybe it's something else. <br /><br />Keep posting! I enjoy the posts and can definitely use the help!

 

[TwoBallScrewBall]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

Hey DH, we collided there. All the info from the ballistic test run is a few posts up.<br /><br />Top speed with the ballistic was just over 40mph, at 5200R. Picked up about 3mph and 300-400rpm moving the motor up onthe transom.

 

[TwoBallScrewBall]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

OK, I think I have finally made up my mind for now. <br /><br />I finally tried the 15X17 aluminum today, and did not like it. I got a full 6000Rpm out of it, but I only saw a top on the GPS of 37. 30mph is 5000 rpm now. Holeshot is awesome. I went out with one extra body today, and even with that the holeshot is the best it's been, motor gets right up to 4200rpm and she comes up nice.<br /><br />A recap, the ballistic, no vents, good holeshot (close but better than OMC) 40mph at 5200 rpm. I feel it's lugging the engine.<br /><br />The OMC SST II, had 1/4" vents. good holeshot, close to the ballistic but not quite, best top end I've seen at 40-41mph at 5500rpm. I checked the manual for the engine, peak HP is right there, 5500. <br /><br />I enlarged the vents to 5/16", the size I had on my last boat, and decided to stick with the OMC SST II. Peak RPM is at peak HP, holeshot was good and I expecct will be a little better with the bigger vents. Stock, no vents, holeshot showed about 3700rpm. With the 1/4" vents, it gets 4000 at holeshot. 4200 was good with the 15X17 so I hope that with the 5/16" vents on the OMC it will spin up to around that RPM. <br /><br />Think I've about gotten all I will get out of this boat short of trying a new prop. If I was to sell the brand new ballistic 14.5X19, what are some suggestions if any for something else I could or should try?<br /><br />Thanks Again!!

 

[ob]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

Assuming that 23 footer tops out with a 250 hp engine I'd say that 41 mph at 5500 is pretty good.Consider keeping the 17" as an optional prop if you ever plan to operate the rig at max weight/persons load rating or pulling skiers.

 

[walleyehed]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

I'm going out on a limb here, and Dhadley will correct me if I'm thinking wrong, but the first prop that comes to mind for me in this app. would be a Turbo I, in a 17 pitch...yes, I said 17. Possibly even a stiletto in a 17 as well...the reason I say this is because I know both of these props pull a little harder on top-end, and they tend to be slightly more efficient.<br />I'm thinking out-load here, but I'm not sure as to the need for the bow-lifting capabilities of the Turbo, but with either of those 2 props, a trip to the prop-shop to "add" a tad of bite is better than removing or reducing pitch (causing a higher slip-rate).<br />I would lean in the direction of what Dhadley may suggest, but that's my 2 cents.<br />Good data work! Keep it up.

 

[Dhadley]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

I would agree. I would still like to try a 19 Stiletto or a large diameter Turbo 17. The rpm still needs to come up but we are limited on set up because we are in the top holes now. Unless we look at jackplates. With either the Stiletto or Turbo we should expect more lift so the speed and rpm should come up. <br /><br />Remember Steve, the reason for trying the 15x17 was to see what the diameter did -- we werent concerned about speed but just the effect the diameter had -- trim range in particular. <br /><br />Staying with the SST is not a bad idea. Look at the trailing edge of the blades. The cup probably disappears before it gets to the tip. If you are going to use that prop as the main one, I'd get the cup replaced and the prop built back to original diameter. I might even extend the cup 1/4 to 3/8" further than stock. Not more cup angle, but extend the cup further around the tip than stock. <br /><br />If youre going to buy another prop then the SST is OK as a spare as is. Put that money toward a new prop. My best advise would be, at this stage, would be to hook up with a performance center and test several prop designs. You now have an excellent baseline and one progressive step.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

hello<br /> good luck on the props. looking at the pic of the trim you also need to save a little coinage for a replacement motor. that trim motor looks like it is going to go to trim motor heaven soon. the 4 bolts can be rather difficult to remove.<br /> good luck and keep trying props. its the only way. theory is great but water tests are the final answer.

 

[TwoBallScrewBall]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

I lost a little bit of trim with the 15" diameter. Nothing to worry about, just maybe twice the width of the needle, maybe 1/16 of the range on the guage. <br /><br />The prop is in perfect shape as far as I can tell. There is cup at the trailing edges, not a scratch onthe blades, does not look like it was ever worked but I'll measure the diameter when I get home. <br /><br />Rodbolt, what's wrong with my trim motor? Stop scaring me....

 

[TwoBallScrewBall]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

Well, went out today with the original OMC SST II prop with it's new 5/16 vent holes, and I'm going to stick with this. Holeshot is great now, engine revs to 4200-4300 while coming on plane and it drops down nice and quick. I did a standing start with the tabs down and it barely transitioned, it just started moving and then popped up on plane. Really nice. Nice 27-28mph cruise at 3800RPM, and can go down to around 3200Rpm at 22mph with the tabs UP and stay on plane. Feels better at 3800 though. <br /><br />Thanks again everyone for the advice! And rodbolt the trim's still working!

 

[TwoBallScrewBall]

Re: OK - Not-So-Big Thumbs Down for Ballistic Prop

Hey DH, <br /><br />Yup, the post that won't die. <br /><br />Took a look at the prop tonight. From the leading edge of the blades to the trailing edge, following an imaginary circumference line around the prop circle, the blade starts off flat and progressively cups to the trailing edge. It seemed to me that the cup does not flatten out toward the trailing edge. It is much more flat toward the leading edge.<br /><br />Taking a look going from the hub out to the tip, that way it does flatten out toward the tip. I don't think this is what you're talking about, but correct me if I'm wrong. <br /><br />Will more cup get me more bow lift? I think that's what I need, to get the hull drier. Once she drops down it does run pretty level, maybe I need a more bow-up attitude at speed. <br /><br />With the vent holes I'm where I want to be with the holeshot, and honestly 40mph for this boat with a 200 is fine for me, but I have it in my head that it can do a little more, and therefore run a little more efficient, saving me on $200+ tank fillups.... you know?<br /><br />Thanks! Any comments are welcome. I appreciate the help again!