Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

[Dunaruna]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

From a laymans viewpoint surely common sense dictates whats syn and whats not - if it comes from dinosaurs its not, if its 'made' in a lab then it is. Now you say that they mix and match.<br /><br />Too damn confusing for me .<br /><br />EDIT: I just read the fine print on a Mobile One (5w 50 SuperSyn) container, it says 'Fully Synthetic'. Is it?<br /><br />Aldo

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

From a laymans viewpoint surely common sense dictates whats syn and whats not

And that is one of the reasons the courts did not define "synthetic" for you. The courts left the decision up to you, and gave the oil marketers plenty of opportunity to label the content of their oils.<br /><br />

I just read the fine print on a Mobile One (5w 50 SuperSyn) container, it says 'Fully Synthetic'. Is it?

No synthetic is 100% pure synthetic oil. There must be additives, etc. that can make up a great portion of the oil.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

Well, you certainly know how to hold ones nose to the old stone. <br /><br />I think its good that you have the time to devote to oil topics, and show us this side, plus the fact that you are a profesional is a good thing. <br /><br />I seriously doubt that either of us will change too many peoples minds, I think its kind of like religion. <br /><br />I also think that we are actually coming a bit closer to working together on this subject, but I doubt that we will ever actually totally agree. <br /><br />OK, Im sorry for all the hard times Ive given you in the past, I know now that you are here to help where you can. Lets get to know you better though, I invite you to enter in on different subjects when you have the time. About all we know about you is that you put yourself through school, you have had your hands dirty, and you fish when you can.<br /><br />Right hand extended

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

The oil doc, I agree that the EPA has nothing to do with motor oils. Just trying to throw an alternative point of view in there.<br /><br />We are all arguing about the API's inaction. They should have defined what a synthetic oil is. They should be embarressed for not doing so. However, have you ever checked who is on the API board???? Hmmmm...could it be the oil makers themselves?<br /><br />P.S. Just to throw my experience in there, I have a new truck that gets 7000 highway miles in between oil changes. I use the cheapest name brand dino oil there is.<br /><br />Ken

 

[ob]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

Hats off to LD for his above comments.

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

We are all arguing about the API's inaction. They should have defined what a synthetic oil is. They should be embarressed for not doing so.

The API is not about defining marketing terms.<br /><br />The API clearly defines "base oil" and "base stock". <br /><br />Their definition includes oils manufactured by oligomerization, or the process of making PAO synthetic oils. They further break their definition down into five grouping categories, defining one group specifically for PAO synthetics(ie: Group IV).<br /><br />The API is only concerned about oil Grouping in terms of interchangeability, not performance. Oil Grouping is defined in terms of saturates, sulfur, and viscosity index, not performance. When it comes to performance the API is only concerned with meeting the established standards. They do not care if "synthetic" is in the oil to make it meet those standards or not.<br /><br />It makes no sense for the API to define a "synthetic". They would have to throw their performance and interchangeability standards out the window and replace them with guidelines of what particular substance must go in the bottle. Each "synthetic" oil would need its own definition, as each one contains different amounts of "synthetic" along with a different blend of additives. The whole industry would be screaming that the API's definition is not the same as theirs.<br /><br />

However, have you ever checked who is on the API board???? Hmmmm...could it be the oil makers themselves?

The API is a not-for-profit, volunteer membership organization that has been around for nearly 100 years. They are very successful in providing consumers quality, consistency, and peace-of-mind. Imagine what buying a quart of oil would be like without them. A free-for-all for the oil makers and a guessing game (at best) for the consumer. The API system works.<br /><br />The API's membership includes all types of oil industries, from the far upstream to the far downstream. After all, the API is the primary trade association for the oil industry. But the API is much more. They include relationships with the Society of Automotive Engineers, American Chemistry Council, American Society of Testing Materials, American Automobile Manufacture's Association, Japanese Automobile Manufacture's Association, and so on.

 

[Booner]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

member TheOilDoc I have read probly every post that you and LD have discused but I am still confused. are you advacationg petrolium based oils over synthetics? go easy on me I am trying to learn something here. I use synthetic oil in my OB

 

[mattttt25]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

why would anyone even try to argue with this guy? he clearly knows more about oil than all of us put together. he backs every statement with pure fact and science. we have to get his comments together and put in the faq.

 

[Booner]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

matttt25 I have no argument with TheOilDoc just want to know what side of the fence he/she is on when it comes to petrolium vs synthetic oil

 

[Heinz CA.]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

Um wow, stuck here in W. VA. , i think I'll just use Mobil 1 as several mfgrs. Chevy Corvette, Dodge Viper specify Mobile 1 in cramped, hot engine comapartments? As long as I can find 10/40 in winter(N CA.) and 20/50 for summer. And yes I've used Castrol dino for years too, a good oil, that seems to stay clean for a longer time? But if Mobile 1 on sale, I'll buy. Thanks, Heinz

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

are you advacationg petrolium based oils over synthetics?

Not at all. <br /><br />There are no bad oils today. Both synthetics and petroleum oils have their advantages. But there are too many variables, applications, and considerations to claim one technology or brand the "best". I will not do that. My needs may be different than yours, my definition of "best" different than yours. I am not selling oil. <br /><br />Most quality oils, whether petroleum or synthetic, far exceed the engine manufacturer's requirements. The manufacturer's specifications and the API license/certification should be the primary concern for the consumer. You can't go wrong there.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

I aint aruguing at all, I agree with his post above completly. <br /><br />The oil doc, tell me where on the bottle of oil that says what type of base oil is used to make the motor oil.<br /><br />It may be there, I honestly dont know.<br /><br />People read the front of the bottle and it says synthetic. That is all they know.<br /><br />If I were Mobil, I would go on a marketing blitz touting thier oils are class IV, put it on the bottle, and tell the consumer what it means.<br /><br />Now I am blaming the oil makers, not API. <br /><br /><br />Ken

 

[Terry H]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

Ken, what diference do it make as long as it does the job. The last 2 trucks I've had got over 300k miles each using dino and 5-10k changing intervals. I still have one of them and drive it everyday. Having the business mind that I have I keep records and know the cost per mile, for me it makes sense to use the least expensive oil that does the job. For alot of folks today it doesn't matter the cost of running, the cost of the vehicle itself is so outragously high, that the hype from the oil marketing magnates has them convinced that only "my" brand is "good enough for you". If you buy a Porsch it will come with a case of Mobil 1 in the trunk, I've heard over and over from my friends, "if Porsch puts Mobil 1 in theirs, that's what I will use." Being as Mobil 1 is rated to be used in the vehicles in question it works as well as what I use. It's possible they will even get better mileage, tho I havn't seen evidence of that yet. With gas hovering around the 2buck mark I may have to reevaluate the cost to get better mileage with using Mobil 1 in my next truck. I'm not a gearhead anymore, but I maintain my own vehicles, and use what lubes the maker says to use, and if I do get some hype by a snake oil salesman I can send a sample to the lab and find out what it really does. There is one common chemical I will add to the gas once in a while, but no oil additives. Chief

 

[TheOilDoc]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

Ken, I agree that it would be nice if oil makers listed the types and content of their base oils on the label. Then guys like us who care would have more to glean. <br /><br />Keep in mind that in general terms most oil makers will reveal what type of base stock they use (petroleum, synthetic, or blend). But it is up to the consumer to ask or find out. Oil makers can certainly put the content of their oil on the label if they wish. Maybe more of us should ask them to do that.<br /><br />Realistically, labels don't include base stocks for a number of reasons. Not only would oil makers subject themselves to interpretation and scrutiny by other oil makers, but they would give away their "secret formula" as to what makes their oil the "best" (or not). Arguments would digress to sweet crude vs. sour crude, Saudi oil vs. Texas oil, what refinery is making the base, who's tanker is delivering it, and what additive package is better than another.<br /><br />Obviously labeling the contents opens another big can of worms. There would be more confusion and more marketing terms undefined. The technicalities would mean nothing to the average consumer. Most consumers don't know what Group IV means, or what particular additives do what. Besides, the amount of synthetic or type of additives in an oil does not always make the oil better or worse than another.<br /><br />It is very complicated, especially in an era of attorneys, patents, and regulation. That is why the API is so helpful. Consumers don't need to worry about it. They just look for the API symbol and buy with confidence. Those consumers wanting something more can do their own research on what oil fits their needs.<br /><br />As an analogy, I would like to know the percentage of carbon in the steel frame of my GM pick-up truck. I haul large loads with it. But GM won't tell me. Instead they list the GVWR and payload of the vehicle, and certify the truck as meeting National Safety Standards. That's really all I need to know.

 

[rudeafrican]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

Do a google search on "mobil 1 amsoil comparison"All the sites that pop up advocate Amsoil as the better one. Dig a little deeper and you see all the sites actually have the same wording and all are directly affiliated to Amsoil. Seems to me like a case of trying to make myself look good by making the opposition look bad.<br /><br />I have seen real independant test results and I can tell you that Amsoil doesn't look that great. These tests were not linked to Amsoil or Mobil in any way. I'll post these when I get a chance.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

Chief, I have always held the opinion that 99% of all cars dont need synthetic. Many cars and trucks out there with 200-300K miles without ever running synthetic.<br /><br />I dont run it in any of mine.<br /><br />I used to run a synthetic blend in my Camaro Z28 cause I drove it hard at the redline, and I was single and could afford more expensive oil. <br /><br />Synthetics do have thier place, such as in high RPM, high heat applications. 99% of all cars and trucks dont need it. Turbos and heavy towing do meet this IMHO. If I had an I/O boat and ran it hard, I would run synthetic too.<br /><br />Heinz asked which synthetic is "best bang for the buck", and no one really showed him an answer cause I dont think there is any data showing any advantage of any oil over the other. So his solution should be to buy the cheapest synthetic he can find and go have fun!<br /><br /><br />Ken

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

Originally posted by KenImpZoom:<br /> Chief, I have always held the opinion that 99% of all cars dont need synthetic. Many cars and trucks out there with 200-300K miles without ever running synthetic.<br /><br />

Absolutly true!!! Im sure that you could go 250,000 miles on the Supertech at WallMart with 3-4,000 mile OCIs. (Oil change intervals).<br /><br />If you are towing a very heavy load regularly, racing, or want to extend your OCIs, thats where you need a synthetic. I run it in my truck, 93 Ranger 4X4, 4 Liter, because I can.

 

[handball]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

Hi guys,<br />I have a question to ask about extended time and mileage use of synthetic oils. My understanding is that one of the reasons for changing your motor oil frequently is to get rid of acids and other contamanents which are the result of combustion gases getting by the rings and into the oil sump. If this is true then by going long mileage and time between changes these contamanents remain in the engine and can affect the metals. Do the extended mileage oils have a way of nuetralizing the effects of combustion results? If not maybe its better to use a good grade of regular oil and change it more frequently.<br />Bill

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Ok OK OK, Lubedude? Whick best synthetic? AMsoil, Mobile 1 or ?

The Total Base Number (TBN) of a motor oil is an indication of how well it combats acids. The higher the TBN number, the greater the degree of protection. You will find a normally higher TBN rating in an extended drain oil, or a HDDO (Heavy Duty Diesel oil). TBN can only normally found out in MSD sheets or in an Oil analysis. They may start out as high as 12-15, and depleat as mileage increases. An extended drain oil will still be in the 6-8 range after 10,000 miles where a notmal oil will drop to as low as 1 which will not protect your engine.<br /><br />Maybe TheOilDoc can tell us what these chemicals are?