Old Evinrude magneto and points question

[Grandpa Mike]

1950 Evinrude Lark ll 40hp.


I'm wondering about the primary wires molded into the coils of old Evinrude magneto systems. This is a joint project with my son who is a great mechanic in his own right but has never even seen a point-set on an ignition system before.

I started wrenching at a Ford dealership way back in the 70's so you could say I've changed a few points & condensers. These are my first on a marine engine with magneto ignition though. My son changed these while I was busy overhauling the carburetor. I didn't get a look at them before he changed them and have a question about the wires molded into the coils.

There are two. One black and one green. It's my understanding that color-code aside, the one to the points is the wire on the bottom of the coil near where the plug wire attaches.

In this case, the wire on the bottom of the coil is green and has a smaller eyelet on it (makes sense). The other, the black one is on the top-side of the coil and I believe it is the coil ground.

That confused me a bit because of the color-coding and "green" being somewhat of a universal color for ground, for that matter black is too but one of them needs to go to the points.

My question is, is that correct? The bottom, green wire to the points and the one on top of the coil, the coil ground?

Actually, this magneto is making me delirious. I wish I could go "old-school" on this and just break out a test light to set the point gap-and timing. Kinda hard to do without a 6 or 12 volt primary ignition circuit. Remember when nothing would hit a .028 point gap quite like the torn-off back of a pack of matches?

Thanks guys, you've been a ton of help already.

 

[Rick.]

Re: Old Evinrude magneto and points question

Not sure you will be able to see this but you have it correct. Black to ground, green to points. Best of luck. Rick.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Old Evinrude magneto and points question

The wiring is correct as stated above.


There are a couple critical gaps you will need to set while tuning the ignition.

First will be the air gap between the coil lamnations and the magnet in the flywheel. If you dont have the ring sold by F_R, just ensure that edge of the laminations is flush with the mounting boss. Run your nail up the boss, if you catch it on the laminations, push the coil in a bit more until it is flush. You dont want it too far in where you will lose spark, but too far out the magnets will catch them. Flush is key.

Now the points gap is no big deal....especially if using a timing fixture and meter. Gets them exact. Setting them with a feeler gauge at 020 while the rubbing block of the points is aligned with the flywheel key will get you there as well though. After all set, clean them with. Your fingerprints will hinder spark. I dip a business card in acetone and run that through.

Keep the ground (black) wire pulled in tight to the coil, and the loop from the condensor wire pulled down before tightening screws or the flywheel/crank will shred them. Just be mindful of the wires routing locations.

Sounds like you are gettting there. Should be purring in no time.

 

[gm280]

Re: Old Evinrude magneto and points question

First of all, I think I see your problem...just looking at your posted picture, I think you have too many wires and that is stopping your engine from cranking...:lol: Actually the points are set at the old school 0.020" gap and probably stamped some where on the engine too. And yes those points work exactly like the old school points worked back in the day too... So once you do get everything adjusted, it will work perfectly and last a long time...

 

[steelespike]

Re: Old Evinrude magneto and points question

I think you hit the wrong key for the year of your motor. You probably all ready know it is a 1960.
Just nit picking.

 

[Grandpa Mike]

Re: Old Evinrude magneto and points question

Here is a picture of the magneto my son sent me when he first got the flywheel to pop. The engine was running (poorly) just before this pic. Though it is hard to tell, there does only seem to be two wires on each point set. One from the coil, and the other, the condenser lead.



The yellow arrow I drew is what seems to be the attaching point for the cut-out switch and mercury switch assembly's.

The engine is 20 years older than my son so I can't fault him but he did attach three wires to each set of points as follows:
One from the coil (green and on the bottom of the coil)
One from the condenser
One from the cut-out switch

I'm thinking that the reason it won't start now is because of the 3rd wire attached to the points. On a continuity meter, the points are picking up a ground regardless of opened or closed.

Could someone tell me where the wires from the cut-out switch are usually connected. I know the mercury switch assembly's are gonna be a pain because they are already giving us fits. The engine wont crank unless you hold your tongue just right and move the throttle back and forth a tiny bit in the "start" range.

Again, thanks!

 

[kfa4303]

Re: Old Evinrude magneto and points question

Here are some great OMC universal magneto links.

Magnetos (general info)

3 HP Evinrude Lightwin Ignition System Tune-Up 1952-1967 (rebuild link)

 

[nwcove]

Re: Old Evinrude magneto and points question

1950 Evinrude Lark ll 40hp.
Actually, this magneto is making me delirious. I wish I could go "old-school" on this and just break out a test light to set the point gap-and timing. Kinda hard to do without a 6 or 12 volt primary ignition circuit. Remember when nothing would hit a .028 point gap quite like the torn-off back of a pack of matches?

Thanks guys, you've been a ton of help already.

View attachment 188556

you can easily set the timing to be perfectly 180 deg apart with a basic multi-meter. hardest part of the job is removing the coils. ( and actually with your motor you may not have to remove the coils to get a wire fished up through the timing plate to the points)

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Old Evinrude magneto and points question

The yellow arrow is simply the mounting screw for the mag plate. Nothing gets attached there.

Your son was correct. All 3 leads get attached to the points screw.

On one set of points, the black lead will go to the cutout switch.

The other set of points, the lead with the knife disconnect will go to your key switch via the solenoid box.

 

[Grandpa Mike]

Re: Old Evinrude magneto and points question

you can easily set the timing to be perfectly 180 deg apart with a basic multi-meter. hardest part of the job is removing the coils. ( and actually with your motor you may not have to remove the coils to get a wire fished up through the timing plate to the points)

That's fine with me...we have the flywheel off now and it only takes a few minutes to remove the timing plate. This engine is also mounted on a boat with a tachometer and since I'm gonna start from scratch...several spools of wire, soldering gun, heatshrink etc....I think we'll just remove any doubt and eliminate (cut off) anything that may be giving us fits.

It's getting replaced and re-wired anyway. I've nearly gone blind reading repair advice, manuals and schematics for nearly 24 hours non-stop now.

The engine did run before the new coils, points and condenser and I'm done playing with it. We're unplugging everything, going straight to the starter with cables and disconnecting all but the coil ground and breaker point wires.

I rewired the entire front end of a Dodge Talon getting paid straight-time on an insurance fire claim. No way am I gonna let this glorified lawn mower beat me.

 

[nwcove]

Re: Old Evinrude magneto and points question

there is a great video on the procedure somewhere on youtube, i cant find it tho. pretty basic tho and no need to remove the timing plate or coils if you can fish a wire up through the bottom of the timing plate. just remove all wires from the points and connect a single wire that will come out the bottom of the timing plate and attach to one lead on your meter, the other lead from the meter goes to a good ground on the block. remove the spark plugs! as you know each plug fires when the points open, and there are timing marks on the flywheel and timing plate. set the flywheel down on the keyway, no need to tighten it down as you will just be lifting it off again, rotate the flywheel cw until the marks are getting close and watch( or listen to the meter, mine buzzes until it gets an open circuit) the meter until the circuit opens, adjust points as needed to get the mark on the flywheel between the marks on the timing plate. repeat for the other cyl. just be carefull not to move anything when you connect the original wires back to the points. ( a timing fixture from member F_R is much easier tho....wish i would have had that tool years ago!!)

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Old Evinrude magneto and points question

You mention that your meter is showing continuity whether the points are opened or closed. Are the leads disconnected when doing this fron condensor, coil and cutout? If you meter cannot read less than an ohm, you need to disconnect all leads to the points before setting them with a meter to determine when they are breaking open.

I must have missed your issue here originally. I had thought in this post you were just determining the origin of the coil wires.

So the motor will not start now? Is the only issue the position of the mercury switch? When angled correctly, will it fire? You can just run a jumper lead from it to ground to bypass it for testing purposes. That will bypass it and allow you to start the motor. I have gotten many motors where guys ran permanent wires from them to ground as they could not troubleshoot them. It may just need adjustment.

If there is more of an issue than that, let us know.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Old Evinrude magneto and points question

Ill second Franks timing fixture. Who needs feeler gauges, lol. I did have to break out the feeler gauges the other week when I did a 60s 33hp. I dont have the fixture for the large crank big twins. I had to look for them for a bit.