OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

lakelivin

Lieutenant Junior Grade
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Aug 19, 2004
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I apologize in advance for the length of this, but not sure what to cut, & I'm too furious to think straight….<br /><br />I have a 1989 Seaswirl with a 4.3L OMC Cobra. In June 2003 I took it to the only repair shop on our lake (owned by a neighbor) to have the engine tuned and the outdrive serviced. It had 416 original hours on it at the time. After the boat was done I drove it home approx. 4 or 5 miles.<br /><br />The next day I drove it approx. 1 mile to a friend’s house. When I left to return home the outdrive started screaming (an extremely loud whining noise, kind of like a jet airplane). It was 11:30 pm so I limped home and called the repair shop the next day to report what had happened. <br /><br />The mechanic and the shop manager came out, listened to the drive, and checked the gear oil. It didn’t register on the fill stick so they checked the drain plug to see if there was any oil in the unit (there was). They added a full tube (10 oz) of gear oil they had brought with them, along with what was left of a partial tube (approx ¾ full) I had in the boat house. When I checked the level the next day it was still low so I got some more oil and added maybe an additional 8 oz. All in all, it required a total of an additional 25 oz. or so to bring it up to full capacity (2 quarts).<br /><br />When the shop manager and mechanic checked the low fluid level they discussed whether the unit had been filled from the bottom (drain plug) or from the top of the drive (where the measuring stick is). The mechanic stated that he had refilled the oil from the bottom drain plug. Neither was aware that OMC Cobra outdrives have a specific fill plug several inches above the drain plug.<br /><br />When I ran the boat after refilling the outdrive oil I noticed a whining noise coming from the outdrive that hadn’t been there before. This was much more subdued than when it first happened but still definitely noticeable to me. I called the shop owner to mention my concern and he came out to listen to the drive. He said he didn’t think there was anything abnormal about the sound (but he hadn’t heard the drive before the incident so he really didn’t have a specific baseline for comparison, either). <br /><br />A neighbor who was very familiar with the boat did note the change in sound the first time he rode in it after this happened. He hadn’t heard about the incident with the low outdrive gear oil but independently commented on the change in the boats sound. He thought the boat sounded ‘kind of turbocharged’ after the tune up, but when I shifted the boat in & out of gear it was clear that the extra noise he noted was coming from the outdrive.<br /><br />Shifting became progressively harder as I ran the boat sparingly for the rest of the summer (approx. 17 hours).<br /><br />This spring I was still concerned about the outdrive so I took the boat to a shop with a reputation for OMC expertise about an hour and a half away to have them pull & service the drive. The manager called me back and told me that the gears and bearings were shot and would need to be replaced. I asked him if the damage was consistent with what might happen if the drive had been run significantly low on oil, and he replied that it was, or that someone had hit something with the prop (which I know didn’t happen).<br /><br />Reasonably certain the damage had been caused by the shop who had left the oil level low, I explained the situation to the owner and made the following suggestion: that I would pay for parts (gears & bearings) at their cost if they would do the labor for free. They told me to bring the boat back and I did.<br /><br />Over two months later they told me the boat was finally done and sent me an invoice that was $150 more than the other place would have fixed it for. Turns out instead of replacing the gears & bearings, they put in a completely rebuilt upper drive plus they charged me for half the labor besides.<br /><br />In the meantime, I found this following tidbit Stuart Hastings (the apparent guru of OMC Cobra drives) posted online based on a discussion he had with the OMC service tech people:<br /> When filling the Cobra with gear lube, use the middle fill plug, as shown in the Owners' Manual. Do not fill through the (bottom) drain plug! If you fill from the wrong port, you will probably trap a big bubble of air inside the vertical drive, and that bubble will eventually rise to the top. When it does, the upper gearcase gears will run dry, and self-destruct. As they say in the computer biz, "RTFM." <br /><br />I called OMC and the tech guy verified the above statement. Now instead of being reasonably sure the first shop had caused the damage I’m about as close to 100% sure as you can be. I’m furious that my gesture to ‘split’ the cost to fix the boat was so badly manipulated. The shop owner claims that the damage wasn’t due to the low gear oil, but that something else ‘just happened’ to go wrong with the drive exactly at the same time they left the gear oil low. He sited the age of the boat (15 years) ignoring the fact that it only had 415 original hours on it. The shop owner also sited the following reasons he thought the damage wasn’t due to the low gear oil: <br />1. He said the gears weren’t ‘blackened’ and that there was no burnt smell in the outdrive (of course the gear oil had been drained by the other shop a couple of months before the original shop ever opened it up).<br />2. He said the timing wasn’t consistent for this type of damage (I drove it 5 miles, let it sit over night, and drove it another mile before the outdrive started screaming).<br />3. He said the boat wasn’t driven long enough for the damage to have resulted from low gear oil.<br />4. No gear teeth were completely missing.<br /><br />The shop owner told me that the gears were just very worn at the ends, but I saw them and they were extremely torn up on the edges. As a matter of fact the new shop manager who showed me the damaged unit stated that he thought some bearings had gone and torn up the gear set (but that, again, it wasn’t due to the incident with the low gear oil).<br /><br />Anyone with significant OMC experience have any thoughts on this situation or suggestions as to where I can go from here? Again, apologies on the length and thanks for allowing me to vent.
 

Solittle

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7,518
Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

I fully understand why you might be a few degrees above livid. If this were July 2003 I would be suggesting small claims court as a minimum. Howaever it being August 2004 I doubt that there is much that you can do except spread the word to anyone who might potentially be thinking of giving this guy some business.<br /><br />Unfortunately incompetance is out there and many do not want to accept responsibility (in other words $$$) for their actions.<br /><br />Sorry.
 

imported_Mike_M2

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
Messages
174
Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

Honestly, i think it's too late. The minute they had to add that much drive oil to top it off i would have insisted the drive be checked. Think of your car motor running out of oil and knocking but not to the point of lockup. Then have someone add 4 quarts and tell you it's ok.
 

P.V.

Chief Petty Officer
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Mar 14, 2002
Messages
452
Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

Well,... the "tell-tale" indicators that the OD oil level was too low (not counting the fact that the upper gears are toast, and that, in fact, there IS low/no oil in the upper gear housing)is to ask.. "You did fill the gear oil from the bottom, right?" AND, that the rear support bearing for the input shaft, located at the aft of the upper housing, will be "blued" from lack of oil!!! I always inspect the upper gears by removing the top cover (held on with 4 3/8ths bolts) to view just how much oil IS there prior to just draining it versus not knowing exactly how much WAS there!!! Additionally, you may not have instant damage from incorrect filling untill you run the engine long enough and tilted enough for the "bubble" of air to migrate to the top gear housing! How long? Hard to say! A boat that is not on plane will run colder at the gear housing than if it's run at speed with the gear housing up and exposed to the air and the "stresses" of no oil to lubricate and "cool" the gears/housings! If everything was kosher prior to the service and then failed after the oil change AND the dealer/tech/mechanic admitted to filling it incorrectly...... they should pay 100%. That's a BIG TIME F-up on their part and they should admit their fault, and apoligize profusly!!!!! BTW, there IS a way to fill it correctly from the bottom... leave the middle plug out, fill till oil comes out of the middle (to allow the trapp'd air to escape from that pocket) then continue on up to the top hole! The reason you even have this concern is because OMC used an outboard gearcase for the lower unit of the Cobra, they modified the water pump area on the outboard and used a hollow driveshaft to allow oil to go up into the upper! Hense, need to remove/account for the air pocket!!
 

Lou C

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Nov 10, 2002
Messages
13,045
Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

Anyone who has read the OMC owner/operator manual or the shop manual would know how these are supposed to be filled. These guys did it like it was a Merc, and on a Cobra that will kill the upper gears. BTW, a Cobra drive on a 4.3 will take 2 qts of gear oil to be totally full. <br />There is no excuse for this kind of incompetence.<br />When I changed the oil on my Cobra drive for the first time, I had never worked on any outdrive before, my neighbor who has had only Mercs was watching me telling me I was doing it wrong, but I just followed the manual and had no problems.<br />Now why can't some so called marine mechanics do the same thing???
 

seahorse5

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Jan 24, 2002
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4,698
Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

It is definately a case of improper filling of the gearcase. That will always "flare out" the gear teeth. That is also a reminder to folks to make sure their service "professionals" are trained in your type of propulsion unit. If someone familiar with MerCruisers worked on your unit, problems could arise if they are not knowledgable with certain servicing procedures.
 

qystan

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Apr 26, 2004
Messages
291
Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

You have my sympathies and am really sorry that you had to go through such. This problem looks universal no boundaries across countries or whever you're from.<br /><br />When something goes wrong, it is inadvertently the owners fault for doing something. <br /><br />By these mechanics, owners are a dishonest bunch so what they say don't count. They are never incompetent. Who are the mechanical experts, them, so they know best. Whatever they say goes. I've come across a mechanic that suggested that only the worn cup of a taper bearing needs to be changed and saving the roller cone for another day when that gets worn.<br /><br />Inevitably we can't do much, can't force them to fix it, you can dump the stuff in their shop and can bet it'll stay there forever.<br /><br />If you want them to show proof otherwise as claimed by you, forget it, they've got plenty of worn parts to demonstrate any failure type you wish or they wish you to see. <br /><br />That said, there are probably more honest mechanics out there than such. <br /><br />One way to look at this whole episode, take it as a learning, costly no doubt, but, sometimes the pursuit of justice or getting our pound of meat will take a lot out of us and anyway will not make us better people. Perhaps acceptance checks need to be more vigorous -testing and rechecking fluid levels included, less placed on goodwill and trust.<br /><br />Money can be earned again, time spent (wasted?) on such cannot be.
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
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Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

wow. yall is busten us poor mechanics:) :) <br /> I agree there are to many incompetents in this field. I have lived and worked in the same place with the same people for about 14 years now. I have seen many come and go. I have spent many days in court as an expert witness and made some other techs mad. but I cant tolereate incompetence. I know we all make mistakes but filling a gearcase? that is why I always look at what was drained look up the specs for how much it holds and then watch how much I put in. all 3 should be close. sorry ya had a problem but unfortunately it does happen.<br /> good luck and keep posting
 

lakelivin

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Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

Thanks so much for the replies. I do value the moral support!<br /><br />Two things I didn't mention. Before I took the boat in, I asked the owner if their mechanic was familiar with OMC because I know it's a different animal from Mercs. He said yes, no problem. <br /><br />And as far as having the original shop pull and check the drive last summer, I did try to do that. When I asked the owner to service the outdrive in the first place I expected them to pull the drive & grease the u joints. After the oil incident, the shop manager told me that they hadn't done so and that it would cost me an extra $200 to do it. I thought that would be worthwhile just to check everything out 'post gear oil shortage'. He promised to call me back & let me know when they could do it. I never got a call & didn't follow up (big mistake on my part).
 

lakelivin

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Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

The OMC savy shop would have charged me $1700 to fix the outdrive. I've offered to 'split the difference' ($850) with the local shop but was turned down. <br /><br />I may still consider small claims court. After all, unless the shop outright lies about several things, there is a direct chain of events from when they serviced the boat to when it was diagnosed as needing new gears. <br /> <br />1. Immediately after they serviced it the outdrive started screaming (I've got a witness who heard it)<br />2. When they came back to check it (right after the service) the gearcase was significantly low on oil.<br />3. They admitted to filling it from the drain plug. <br />4. I called the shop owner back out with concerns about the whining noise after the gearcase was refilled (and have a witness that the noise was new 'post servicing').<br />5. I can provide documentation about what is likely to happen if you fill a Cobra from the drain plug.<br />6. The OMC savy shop that identified the gear damage indicated that it was consistent with running it low on gear oil (the key may be whether I can get him to put that down in writing). <br /><br />So unless they lie about 2,3,or 4 I might have a decent chance in small claims court. And I don't know that the owner will outright lie, at least I hope he won't. Like I said, he's a neighbor, seems very decent in general, and I actually like the guy (may be past tense before all of this is over).
 

seahorse5

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Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

If you go to small claims court, be sure to obtain a copy of the service manual and any bulletins or service literature that describes how to properly fill the gearcase. Perhaps you can get letters from factory trained techs (Cobra Master Tech ratings are even better) to help your case.
 

Lou C

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Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

And as a future precaution, unless you learn to do it yourself, ALWAYS let it sit a while after the oil is changed to allow air to the top, and check the level on the dipstick before running. If you don't get 2 qts into it, you don't have enough oil in it. I have found that pumping it in slow, with the dipstick just sitting in the hole, to allow air out, works well. What I will do is fill it this way, then hook up the water hose, turn the water on to lube the impeller, and crank the motor over witout starting it. That spins the upper gears and makes any air come to the top. Then check it again. When you do this make sure the drive is level. See if you can order the OMC operators manual from an Evinrude/Johnson dealer, that will give you the procedure and it may also help you in your case.
 

tommays

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Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

i you live in a small town is this really worth going to war with a friend over<br /><br /> if he has not made it right by now its going to get ugly in court<br /><br />tommays
 

lakelivin

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Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

I've got a Clymer manual and had previously changed the OD oil myself with no problem at all. The only reason I didn't do it this time was that I expected them to pull the drive to lube the u joints, which I didn't feel comfortable doing (nor do I have a place to do it).<br /><br />As far as 'going to war' over this, I appreciate your point, but there are a couple of issues that matter to me. One is that I've been out of work for awhile so the cost really hurts at this point. <br /><br />But more importantly, I'm completely fed up with footing the bill for the mistakes of others who fail to take responsibility.<br /><br />About the same time this happened I had a main drain clogged at a rental property I own. They couldn't find the outdoor cleanout plug so instead of calling me back & asking where it was (they didn't want to use up their cell phone minutes!), they pulled the toilet and snaked from there, which didn't work. They then tried to snake from the vent stack on the roof, got the snake stuck and had to cut out plumbing under the house to free it. <br /><br />The renter eventually came home, located the cleanout plug for them, and they finally got it cleared. Bottom line was that I received an $1100 bill for what should have been at most $150 work of work! Granted they were at the house for hours, but only due to their mistakes. On that one I agreed to split the difference between what the job should have cost if they had done it right in the first place and what they billed me. <br /><br />In the past I probably would have just paid for the boat and chalked it up to experience, but I'm tired of playing the passive victim role (especially since I offered to meet them half way). Seems like at some point one needs to take a stand.
 

tommays

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Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

i feel your pain and i ony bring it up because i lived in greenvile SC and johnson city TENN and have seen how ugly it can get when friends sue each other in small towns if he wasent your friend i would have gone to court as soon as he did not make it right<br /><br />good luck what ever you do<br /><br />tommays
 

seahorse5

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Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

Keep us informed as to what transpires.
 

CTD

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Nov 13, 2002
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Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

If you are up to fighting for justice I say more power to you. We have all been shafted at one time or another and let it go because its not worth fighting over. Call the people at small claims court and ask how to proceed, they will tell you if there is anything you can do and how.
 

DHPMARINE

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Dec 16, 2003
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3,688
Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

Just trying to even up a few things here,and maybe help.<br /><br />OMC originally said to fill the outdrive from the bottom.<br /><br />Later they said from the middle.I don't think either way would cause a failure of the gears.<br /><br />Gear failure can come from many things.But if the bearings are seized,that is why the gears are toast.<br /><br />If the gears are toast,and the bearings are ok,oil is not the problem'<br />DHP
 

lakelivin

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1,172
Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

DHP, I personally called OMC (Bombardier) tech support last week and they verified what I've seen stated several times online: that you stand a good chance of trapping an air bubble and ruining the gears if you fill a Cobra from the drain plug instead of the fill plug. See P.V.'s post above as to why. But the bottom line is, whatever the reason, I got the boat back with the gear oil low around 25 oz or so.<br /><br />Granted gear failure can come from many reasons, but when they go immediately after coming back from the shop with the gear oil that low, what would you estimate the probablility of it being caused by the low gear oil versus some other unspecified cause that just happened to occur at that exact point in time?
 

lakelivin

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Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

Oh, I did get my boat back yesterday by paying (they did knock off the rest of the labotr charge) but noting on the invoice that I disputed the amount.<br /><br />On the positive side, the owner seems open to looking at any more info I can provide from independent 'experts', specifically Stuart Hastings. He seemed impressed (as am I) with the depth of knowledge and documentation Stuart has compiled about this particular drive. Does anybody by chance have Stuarts email address that they might private mail me at myaddy@access4less.net?<br /><br />My hope is that rather than being dishonest, the owner is just extremely subjective about the issue and that if I can provide enough support he wil come around to the point that we can agree on something we can both at least live with.
 
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