OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

[lakelivin]

Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

rodbolt:<br />thanks for the further input. I saved the service documentation and they don't have drive oil itemized. As far as a failed seal instead of improper filling being the cause of the low oil level, P.V. mentioned that possibility above. But after we filled the drive to full level (and did nothing else to the drive), the level stayed at full for an additional 17 hours driving time and 9 months calendar time. Plus noone found oil in the bellows. Wouldn't that pretty much rule out a leaking seal? <br />In your post above, you suggested "and above all do seem mad or accusatory." Did you really mean "and above all DON"T seem mad or accusatory."? <br />You also said that "were it my shop I would have pressure tested it imediatly before refilling and if it was low the next step would have been a top cover removal for inspection. total time would be about 30 min for all." I'd bet a fair amount of money that if it were your shop there wouldn't have been a problem in the first place, lol.<br /><br />seahorse:<br />thanks for the tip. I have a Clymers but will get a factory manual. I've wanted one anyways (not totally pleased with the Clymers), and those references you pointed out should be very useful. One question: my boat is an '89 and you mentioned the manual for a '90. Does the 1990 manual also cover the 1989 Cobra?

 

[Lou C]

Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

You may be able to order the manual from a Johnson/Evinrude dealer, that's how I got mine. It is very good, I also recommend you get the parts manual, and the owner's operating manual since it has a lot of the maintenance stuff you can do yourself.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

The 1990 manual was the one I had handy and it should be the same as the '89 version as the drive did not change in those 2 years.

 

[DayCruiser]

Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

The problem, as I see it, is the age of the boat(when it comes to your court case). The gear oil could have been low in the past and caused some of the wear and tear. Even if you win, you wont recieve compensation based on new parts and labor. The judge will take off for depreciation on account of the age. A fairly new boat would be more cut and dried.<br />As for this thread helping out. I doubt it would. YOu would need to document and verify the background of these people. At least know their names and addresses. And too ,we have some differring opinions<br />One strike against you is the fact that the gears didnt sieze up.<br /><br /><br /> "2) The drive started screaming the day after I got it back from them after servicing. They then came and checked the gear oil, it was low, and took additional 24-28 oz to fill. After filling to capacity, it remained full for another 17 hours of driving and 7 or 8 months." <br /><br />This really hurts your case. The fact that you let them fill it up with oil even after you heard the "screaming" noise. Driving it for 17 more hours and an keeping it for an entire summer.<br />If you had demanded that they check the gears after you heard the screaming then you could better point to their responsibility.<br />A "screaming" sound would point to damage already done. Usually once something starts grinding, its doing significant damage(auto breaks for instance)YOu said it sounded like a jet airplane.<br />So I agree with SoLittle. Too much time has lapsed and you continued to operate it long after the damage was done.<br />That being said, your best bet would be "Judge Judy" She tends to lean toward probabilties lol<br />BUt she would ask you "why did it take you so long to file this action?"<br /><br />Good luck and I hope everything works out for you

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

I've been following this post all along,and thought low oil did the drive in.I reread the post,and evidently the drive didn't die until 17 hours later.<br /><br />That's a lot of time before failure,and low oil usualy won't affect shifting at all<br /><br />DHP

 

[lakelivin]

Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

DayCruiser:<br />"The gear oil could have been low in the past and caused some of the wear and tear." Unlikely, as I had the drive pulled and serviced by the OMC certified shop two years before this happened. They did not note any gear wear at that time, and I changed and checked the oil levels subsequently, including shortly before I took it in to my 'local' shop for service. It was never low during that time...<br /><br />As far as the 'screaming sound' the day after I got the boat back with the low gear oil, I've got a witness who heard it happen. The OMC shop thinks it was probably due to bearings that went and were chewing up the gears. As a matter of fact, the 'new' shop manager at the place that serviced the boat (he wasn't there when this first occured, but did see the upper drive when they replaced it) also told me the damage was probably due to bearings that went and tore up the gears, but he argued that the bearings went randomly, not due to the low gear oil, and that it was just a coincidence that it happened at the time the drive was so low on oil. <br /><br />Unfortunately I didn't know enough at the time to demand that they check the gears (wish I had discovered this forum a while back). I did call them back after they refilled the gear oil because I was still cconcerned with the new whining sound from the outdrive after this happened. Although I wasn't aware that checking the gears was the appropriate follow up given the circumstances, they certainly were (or should have been). I pointed out my concern and asked them to check the problem. They had the owner come out and he said it sounded normal, even though he hadn't heard the drive before this happened. As Rodbolt said above "were it my shop I would have pressure tested it imediatly before refilling and if it was low the next step would have been a top cover removal for inspection." I'd suggest that the fact that they didn't do an appropriate check despite my stated concerns should be a factor in my favor.<br /><br />Ans while the problem would have certainly been immediately identifiable (and I'd have likely been better off) if the gears had seized up right then, I don't see the fact that they were damaged but still operable as evidence that the shop wasn't negligent for the damage that was caused. I can't see "it wasn't broken enough" as a valid defense in this case. <br /><br /><br />DHP:<br />Actually, the drive hadn't completely failed yet. The 17 hours was the amount of time I drove it the remainder of the summer. The gear/ bearings damage was confirmed when I took it in for servicing (and to check out my still lingering concern that something had been damaged by the low oil incident) by the OMC certified shop the next spring. Although the drive still operated, the OMC shop indicated that not only were the gears/ bearings damaged, but that if I had continued to drive it, I would have soon trashed the casing as well.<br /><br />Again, I wish I had had the damage identified immediately, but didn't know enough to do so. Even though time elapsed, I think the chain and timing of events is clear enough to give me a chance.

 

[lakelivin]

Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

Resolution to the issue:<br /><br />I filed a small claims case for $1671.91, the total amount the original shop who slack filled the outdrive charged me for the repair (they put in a rebuilt upper). I was awarded $837, half the amount I asked for.<br /><br />The owner argued that because I was able to drive the boat for another 17 hours after we refilled the drive to capacity without it totally freezing up, and that the damage wasn't formally identified until the OMC shop pulled the drive the following spring, that they weren't responsible. But he was honest in admitting that they screwed up and slack filled the drive, and that I called the shop back out twice with concerns about the new whining noise in the drive shortly after the incident first occured. <br /><br />For my other evidence, I had a notarized statement from someone who heard the drive when it started screaming the day after I got it back from the shop low on gear oil. I also had a notarized statement from the OMC certified shop that the damage was consistent with running the drive low on gear oil. Plus I took in the OEM Service Manual that states "... running drive with improper oil level can cause immediate internal outdrive damage". <br /><br />The Judge pretty much found them responsible for the damage. But he said that by not specifically defining that they replace just the damaged gears & bearings instead of a rebuilt upper unit (the core was fine), or placing a dollar amount limit on what the repair would cost me, I was partially to blame in giving them a 'loophole' (my paraphrase) to put in the rebuilt drive instead of replacing the just the damaged gears & bearings. (The agreement between us was that would fix it for parts at their cost and free labor; I had only talked about damaged gears & bearings, and they didn't make any mention of a rebuilt upper until after they had put it in). <br /><br />All in all, I can live with the result. The whole affair was cordial and respectful both ways. I don't anticipate lingering resentment or ill feelings from the shop owner/ neighbor (although I sensed his wife was a bit cool). <br /><br />They've got 10 days to appeal; I don't anticipate they will, 'cause after seeing the evidence I think they recognize that they could lose the whole $1600. And if they do appeal, I'll ammend my claim to include compensation for loss of use of the boat for almost 3 months, which was one of the worst parts of the ordeal in the first place (I had 4 different sets of company visit me for a weekend or more at the lake during the time the boat was out for service).<br /><br />So all in all, hopefully this has come to an acceptable conclusion with no lingering ill will on either side. If not, I'll let you know.<br /><br />Thanks for all of your input and advice.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

hello<br /> glad ya got something anyway. I think the shop should have paid the bill.usually when I get one in that is chewed from lack of oil about all I will reuse is the case. also if the upper is chewed we dissasemble the lower for inspection.<br /> I tend to feel ya got stuck but at least it was not a total loss.

 

[lakelivin]

Re: OMC outdrive damage: was I shafted? (RESOLVED)

rodbolt:<br /><br />Me too, but like you say, getting stuck for $835 is a heck of alot better than getting stuck for $1670. I screwed up when I tried to give them the opportunity to make it right, and really screwed up by offering to pay for the parts at their cost. I didn't know enough at the time to even consider that they might just slap on a rebuilt drive, and also didn't know enough about the technical details to realize how strong a case I had. I did learn alot & I'll look at the $835 as somewhat of a tuition expense. Plus, the owner is a neighbor, I like the guy on a personal level, and I think the relationship will be ok (although I'll obviously never do business with that shop again). <br /><br />I should have just had the OMC shop fix it and taken the original shop to court for the $1700 they would have charged. Not the first time trying to be a nice guy has cost me, maybe one of these days i'll learn, lol.<br /><br /><br />DHP: (if you're still reading this)<br /><br />Moot point, but have thought about the question you asked in another post. You speculated that you thought my outdrive was filed from the bottom hole to the middle hole only, like any outboard and asked what I thought had happened. <br /><br />Maybe I was too quick to discount that possibility. Being only familiar with my Cobra, I saw that as being so big a screwup as to be unlikely. But I don't know what a mercruiser or other outdrive setups look like. Do they have a drain plug on the side at the bottom (for both draining & filling) and another plug on the side (to prevent air pockets & indicate full level)? If Cobras are unusual in having the air plug/ fill stick on TOP, I could easily see an inexperienced mechanic who had never worked on a Cobra doing it that way. That would seem to account for the large amount missing more than an air pocket if they just filled from the drain pulg with the fill plug closed....