One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

Dennisanoka

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With the help of this forum I recently was able to troubleshoot and repair a mis-firing cylinder caused by the VRO leaking fuel back into the #4 cylinder. I however have another concern. I believe there is still another issue going on as well which I am not comfortable ignoring. The #1 cylinder is much leaner than the other 3. By comparison after a 5 minute idle 2,3 and 4 have wet electrodes but are not fouled. I suspect that is normal since I am now mixing 50:1, so naturally there is some oil present. But # 1 is dry as a bone. I did rebuild the carbs with the usual carb kit. I did not soak them as some suggest but I did throughly blow them out with compressed air. So the floats, both gaskets, needle valves, frost plugs were replaced. I also swapped the low speed jets which are accessable on the top front of the carbs just to see if it would change anything, it did not. I will admit that when I had them appart I did not remove the high speed orifice or the orifice lablelled as part#3 in the detailed drawing. I was able to see thru all the ports and channels except for one which is located in the idle chamber channel, but I couldn't see thru either of those, for the #1 side or the #2 side so I discounted that as , you just can't see thru those. Too lean at any RPM is dangerous to say the least. I would sleep alot better at night if I could nail this one down. I can not say for sure at this point if the lean condition is at idle only or at speed as well. I am guessing though that it may be at speed as well based on the plug appearance. BTW, are any of the orifices common to idle and high speed?

Thank you again in advance,
 

Joe Reeves

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13,262
Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

Dennis.... All of the jets and passageways pertaining to fuel are conmmon to the high speed jet as fuel must pass thru the high speed jet before it can travel to the other areas.

In the above, I say pertaining to fuel due to the fact that the jets that are installed at the top front area of the carburetors at a angle are "Air Bleed" jets that meter air, not fuel. However, since the air being metered is mixed with the fuel, those jets could also be considered common.

On the 1988 90hp Evinrude/Johnson, the jets are as follows:

Idle Air Bleed Jets (4) = Screwed in at an angle in the top forward portion of the upper carburetor body = .034 (Marked as 34)

Intermediate Speed Jets (4) = Screwed in straight down in the float body = .026 (Marked as 26C)

High Speed Jets (4) = located in the center bottom portion of the float chamber = .056 (Marked as 56C)

I'd suggest that you double check the locations of all of the jets. Also, if you didn't actually clean the high speed jets with a piece of single atrand steel wire, do so as merely soaking them in solution and/or blowing them out with air doesn't do the job thoroughly.

Note that simply blowing a carburetor out with presurized air does nothing to a fouled carburetor. That one small bit of gum causing a restriction will absolutely resist any amount of air you could apply to it.

(Carburetor Cleaning)
(J. Reeves)

If you do not have a regular carburetor cleaning solution container, a very reasonably priced one can be found at many automotive type stores. Should there be a "Advanced Auto Parts" store near you (Formerly Discount Auto), they have a one (1) gallon container (resembles a one gallon paint can) that contains the carburetor cleaning solvent and it even contains a parts basket. Last price I saw on that item was only $10.00 and was under the "Gunk" brand name.

Remove and dismantle the carburetor completely. Remove any rubber, plastic or nylon parts that may be attached to it as cleaning solvent will attack that material. Clean the carburetor thoroughly, not only soaking it in the solvent, but also cleaning it manually wherever needed with whatever tool or piece or wire etc might be required. Solvent alone, although it does a great job, sometimes doesn't get it all. Check your parts manual closely so as not to miss various parts that might create a problem..... such as the small nylon bushing/bearing that exists on the tip of some slow speed needle valves.

Use a complete carburetor rebuilding kit when assembling the carburetor. Using old gaskets etc is a no go unless they were recently purchased and a second look, double checking ones work is in the process.

Carburetor kits usually come with extra parts that would pertain to other carburetors and not necessarily to the one being rebuilt. This is just common practice by manufacturers too eliminate the need for numerous kits..... a keep it simple thing. Simply don't use what you don't need.

Core plugs are included with most kits BUT they don't necessarily need to be changed. Keeping in mind that there are usually a group of exit holes under those core plugs, a rule of thumb is if air can flow thru the passageways and you can feel the air coming out the exit holes under those core plugs, it's generally okay not to change them. The exception would be if you can see a bit of some kind of debris hanging down thru one of those holes, then obviously the core plug needs to be removed regardless of the air flow.

Changing a core plug. Keeping in mind that the critical carburetor casting is not too far beneath that core plug, USE CAUTION in removing it! Drill, or by using a sharp pointed scribe of some kind, create a small hole in the core plug, then insert that scribe or a tool of your choosing and simply pry the core plug off BUT DO NOT insert that tool too far so that it contacts the carburetor casting. To install the new core plug, sealer is usually not needed, simply lay the core plug in its seated area, then tap the center portion of it with a rounded flat proper size punch. This causes it to spread out sideways which seals and locks it into place.

A final note........ Do not ever use any kind of sealer on a carburetor OR anything pertaining to the fuel system. The exception might be an external core plug whereas one could use a substance called "Gasoila" if one thought air might be escaping into the carburetor via its edges.

http://stores.ebay.com/Evinrude-Johnson-Outboard-Parts-etc?refid=store
 

reeldutch

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Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

if the cylinder is indeed running lean, that means that your fuel air ratio is above 14.7:1

now this can mean or not enough gas or to much air.
if you have a air leak you will create a lean mixture.
to much air.

if your main yet is glogged - blocking fuel= leaner
at idle midrange or wot.
if your float is set to low = leaner at midrange and idle
at wot the float drops to the bottum and all feul is been consumed by the motor.

if your idle air yet is clogged - blocking air= that would make it richer.

since you have been working on the motor i would check for airleaks.
do you have by any chanse regular zipties around any fuel hose?

check the primer fuel lines for airleaks.

the motor doesnt sneeze or cough ?
 

Dennisanoka

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Messages
252
Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

Reel Dutch- first of all just so I don't forget I will be saving your post for future reference.
I do not use regular zip ties. I use a clamp which NAPA sells which is used on fuel injectors. They give a better clamp than the hose clamp and don't damage the hose if one does get too zealous in tightening them.
I will double check the primer fuel lines since they have been off several times. I will look to see if there could be an air leak which is isolated to only the #1 cylinder and not #2. Let me know if any come to mind.
If I do not find any I will re-clean the main jet and the mid range jet and re-try hopefully tonight.

Thank you to both of you!!
 

reeldutch

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Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

double check the resirc lines they maight be sucking air. ore be clogged.
so the nr1 cylinder is not getting recirc from the other crankcase.

other than that its prbbebly in your carb if all the lines are air tight.

when you spray some prmix into the nr1 carb does it rev up a little before bogging down?

if it does you are indeed running lean.

check the temp of the engine at different spots.
lean running cylinder makes the temp in that cylinder higher.
compare it to the other one.

the temp should be around 145.

if its higher than 150 we will have to start finding the problem.

so spray some pre mix in the nr1 carb troaght.
tell us how it reacts

check engine temp tell us what it is.

did you change the waterflow restrictors in the block?

what plugs are you using?

let us know.
 

Dennisanoka

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Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

ReelDutch,

Thank you for your reply. I'll answer the easy questions first. 1)Yes I did replace the waterflow restrictors. 2)The temp of #1 "feels" the same as the others but I also put a temp. gauge on #1 and it runs just what you said about 140-145. 3) I use Champion QL77JC4 plugs. Now I have a couple questions. I will re-check the re-circ valves. If I recall they pass air in one didrection but not the other-correct? But how can I double check that I re-connected them correctly after my re-build. I did put tape on each one and labeled them but I maybe screwed up. I can not locate them or the routing in the diagrams. Would it be too difficult to provide that here? And what is the proper way to test them? I will also check the hoses for leaks. Before we go on let me go back to troubleshooting 101. What is normal for the plugs? Lean can be a relative term. I have 3 plugs that look the same at idle and the 4th one is different. Logic says the 3 are correct and the 4th one is not, but that is not always a safe assumption. So let me ask this, when an egine that was pre-mix in it has been at idle "should" all 4 plugs have a slight oil wetness on the electrode? 3 do and one does not. The porcelain is the same color on all 4(light brown).

I will also run the spray into the carb test a let you know, but before I do that I hope to get help on the recirc valve question above.


Thank you,
 

iwombat

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Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

Others may disagree, but I'd be going off the color of the plug only and not be worrying about whether it has some residual fuel left over when you inspect.
 

reeldutch

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Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

you certainly can do a test with the resirc valves.

trim the engine as far as posible up and still have a steady idle.
with the engine running pull the recirc hose of.
one at the time(at the cylinder).check nr 1 first for you.
they should pulse some fuel oil mix out the resirc hose.
put your finger on the nipple so it wont suck in air.
be very carefull it is fuel.
check nr 1 first.
i do not know out the top of my head where the recirc line comes from that feeds nr1.
it would make sence if it came from nr 4.

i think that it could be clogged.

i dont think that will cause a real lean condition just what you discribe as a differense in richness on the plugs.

good temp and you are having the right plugs.
you might want to check your float level also if you cant find the problem.
 

reeldutch

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Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

i do agree with iwombat.

i do not think you have a big problem if your porselain looks nice and tannish.

but let us know what you find
 

Dennisanoka

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Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

You both may well be correct but having spent the time and money last year and this to re-build it, the last thing I wanted to do was ignore a sign that something may be a potential issue. The re-build was educational but now I just want to go fishing. Thank you I will go over everthing again. #4 hose comes out and runs back into the front of the manifold all by itself. #1 and one coming off the side of the manifold join together and connect underneath the bottom carb. I can not see forsure unless I pull the carbs off.
 

Dennisanoka

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Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

Can someone educate me on the purpose /function of the recirc valves on this engine? It may help me in understanding my issues and what to look for.
 

Dennisanoka

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Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

What's the chances I could find the diagram that includes the recics valves and hose connections on the engine.
 

Dennisanoka

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Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

Sorry for the typo- I should have wrote "Recirculation valves". What's the chances I could find the diagram that includes the recirculation valves and hose connection locations on the engine?
 

reeldutch

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Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

ok,

the purpose of the resirc system is to resirculate the puddled fuel from the crankcase to the cylinders where it will be used and burned.

specialy at idle when the engine is cold a lot of fuel will puddle in the bottum of each crankcase.
the presure in the crankcase and the resirc checkvalves will push the puddled fuel trough the hose into the cylinder.

so knowing this at idle.

nr 1 looks dry and the other 3 look wet could mean the resirc is clogged. its not getting the puddled fuel from the crancase.
thats why may be your extra fuel from the leaking fuel pump was flooding the nr4 cylinder because it was going nowere.

do the reserc test as i discribed and im prety shure you will see no fuel from your resirc hose pulsating.

not a big deal but just a pain in the a.. after a complete rebuild.
i do understand you are very careful.
thats the only way to do it.
you are doing great.
 

Dennisanoka

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Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

Then why doesn't each cylinder have a recirc hose going to it? And why wouldn't that extra fuel flood out that cylinder? My assumptions about them were incorrect I had assumed that those hoses connected at the cylinder were outputs, taking unburned fuel and recirculating it back to the carb somehow but you say they input un burned fuel into the cylinder. As you can tell I missed small and large engine class in highschool.
 

reeldutch

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Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

each cylinder should have a hose going to it.
the v4 you have has a carb that feeds 2 pistons.
so you have fuel pudling from 2 cylinders and feed back into the top cylinders.

2 recirc hoses from the crancases to the cylinders.
let me double check on that for you.
but im pretty shure the hoses and up in the bypas covers.
 

reeldutch

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Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

but as iwombat and i stated i wouldnt realy make it a to big of a deal as long as you dont get a real lean condition and it idles good your fine.
 

iwombat

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Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

If you're concerned about it, as you seem to be, you can fix this at your leisure. It's nothing that will prevent you from getting on the water. This issue probably doesn't exist at all once you get throttle into midrange.
 

iwombat

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Re: One lean cylinder 1988 90 HP

I think pretty much the same things I've been saying. Only your posts contain the nittty-gritty details to back it all up.

I've been where Dennis is. You want at least two people patting you on the head saying it's all okay.
 
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