One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ... :)

[Hai Nhi]

Good morning everyone.

I've been reading this forum so much lately my wife complains , and I'm thankful for lots of information and knowledge everyone's willing to share.

I've read lots of threads about getting the first boat to educate myself and narrow down my search. There're a couple of threads that answer most of my questions. I'd just like to run my scenario through with you for more advice/input please.

Please pardon my first but lengthy post. I just want to lay out everything possible so you can help me better.

A. Quick background:
- We like camping: used to go at least once in the mountain, once in the winter for skiing/snow boarding, and once in the lake (summer) per year. The last 5 years I've been ... home raising up my new family with 2 kids (2 yrs & 4 yrs boys). My wife & I just discussed and it's time for us to start camping again, starting this summer!!! :joyous:
- We have a Yamaha cruiser jet-ski (3 seater) been sitting in the backyard. So for light water sports (tube towing, skiing and wake boarding), we can use it instead of a boat.
- So for the new boat, we'd like to use it for cruising, sight seeing, and definitely stay over-night/weekend.
- I think we most likely want to stay in lakes, rivers, & maybe in the fresh water part of the CA delta only. I heard if you boat in salt water, even with careful cleaning, chances of engine damage is high, is it true?
- Mostly (50%) would be us 4, 25% of the times would have some more siblings/friends (2-4 max), 25% with bigger group of friends/relatives (8-10). For the latter, the jet-ski would be with us as well.
- So I think we only wanna go with cuddy cabin boat since the jet-ski would take care of the sport portion.
B. What I've been looking around:
- I checked out a 1996 Wellcraft 28', with a Volvo Penta GXIE, 350 Chevrolet V8 - fuel injection. The boat was not kept clean. Maybe the seller hasn't been out for a while. But I know nothing about boat so I know I would have to hire a surveyor to check more carefully. I talked to the mechanic who's been working on his engine. He said the seller just had it serviced recently. Asking price is around $15,000. Nada Guide shows only $8500 (maybe +$2000 for the trailer??).
- Another guy lives near me (not really a neighbor though) also shows interest to sell his 1992 Regal (I think it's a 26 footer) for $13,000. Looks ok. Engine was just rebuilt. Nada Guide also shows lower price for this: about $8000 (plus trailer) I think.
- I also looked (through ads only, not in person yet) at some smaller ones, like 2001 Bayliner 19' ($9000) - only sleeps 2, 1995 Reinell 197 rxl Cuddy ($6000), 1994 Chris Craft 21' Cuddy Cabin, 351 Ford IO for $12000, etc...
C. My questions/concerns:
- Based on a number of threads on this forum & what I heard from a local marine mechanic: Outboard is better. Some of you even insisted on an outboard exclusively. But the boats I'm looking at (cuddy cabins) all have I/O engines, which is different from pure "inboard", right? (I'm not interested in fishing boats, which do have outboard options but don't have enough seating/benches). That marine mechanic was like: "inboard would cost you a lot in the long run because of more troubles/maintenance requirement." But what about an "I/O" engine? Is that better than just "inboard"? I don't know engines, but my cousin is an auto mechanic. Does that help me a bit, at least for not-so-major problems, if I get an I/O? Since I/O engines seem similar to auto engines.
- I also heard rebuilt engine is not good because of the engine wears & tears. True/false? Why/why not?
- Now we're in Hayward, CA. I know a couple of lakes around here (1-2 hrs drive). If you're only taking the boat out for cruising/sight seeing (we would probably only over night/weekend once in a while), would you get bored after a hand full of sight seeing times of the same places? Where to look for guide on worthy places for boating? This is important to us because if we can use the boat often, and there're lots of places to go, I can convince my wife to spend a little more.
- Boat size question: I've read about the "2 footitis" phenomenon. Haha. Right now I have a F250 regular cab truck for construction work. Wife wants a Toyota Highlander (5000 lbs max towing) by end of THIS FEB!!! So if I buy a smaller boat then we can tow it with the new Highlander. But I really like the look and feel of the 24-26-28 footers. Hahaha. I guess because they all have bigger cockpit with lots of seating, and can sleep 4-6. They also look grade, more luxurious. But if I go more than 5000 lbs (trailer included), I have to trade my f250 in for a crew cab, long bed truck. That's long for me, plus it'll cost more. But if I have to, I can. So, for those of you who have a smaller cuddy with 4-5 family members: how do you utilize the cabin? Do you actually sleep on board? How is it? Do you with the bigger (24-28') boats? What about when cruising, how smooth/bumby is it with the smaller ones (less than 20')?
- Then it comes to the next & last question I hope: after consider above question (about boat size) and the boats I'm looking at in section B, which one would you recommend? I wanted to spend around $10K max for the boat, but if it makes more sense, I can sweet talk to my CFO (Ms boss) for more. There's one poster on this forum mentioned something along the line that "I have to be able to sleep on the boat." And I kinda like that too. Hehehe.

Again, sorry for the long post. But I really need help.

Thanks in advance for your time.

Nhi

 

[tpenfield]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

Let's see lots of questions . . .

welcome to iBoats

Boats are OK in salt water, but the maintenance on the engines is higher. Outboards are better for salt water use, I/O's are fine with the required maintenance and upkeep. Boats kept in fresh water are more prone to gel coat blisters and even structural rot. So, pick your poison.

i owned a 24 foot cuddy for 7 years . . . Never slept on the thing. Cuddy cabins can sleep 2 at best, but they are cramped. Cruisers have an 'aft cabin' that can sleep more and are more comfortable for overnights, but are less agile in the day boating and water sports.

a 5k towing limit will get you a pretty small boat, maybe 20 feet max. so, plan on using the F250 for towing. You should look at lots of boats before you decide on what to buy. I looked at about 8-9 boats on my first purchase and 12 boats on my second purchase. If you look at just a few, then you are limiting your knowledge and exposure to the varieties of boats and the market offerings.

Your budget and size requirements will get you into some 15-20 year old boats. Structural issues will be on the top of the list to check. A surveyor should be able to spot these sorts of issues, but you will want to be able to spot them too, so as to avoid pursuing a rotting boat.

Rebuilt engines can be a crap shoot, as they can often live a short life, based on what happened to them in their first life. Some are fine, some are not, it is tough to tell. So, a boat with a rebuilt/remanufactured engine should be checked more carefully.

NADA guides tend to be a bit low on 15-20 year old boats, maybe by 10%, but it is just a guide.

I have several web sites listed in my signature below that document my boat buying and ownership experience. Check them out for more info on what is ahead.

 

[aspeck]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

Congratulations on wanting to join the ranks of boaters and joining iboats. Remember there are lots of great boating accessories on this site to add to your boating experience once you buy your first dream boat! From your camping background, you will love boating. And you can spend years on the same lake and never get bored! There is always something new to see and experience.

Normally I would recommend going smaller for your first boat, but since you are in construction and probably very familiar with towing, and your desire is to camp AND boat, the larger I/O will be good for you.

look around ... It is the season where it is the buyers market. Make sure there are no soft spots on the floor. When you decide on the boat that fits your family and budget, get a surveyor. And with your wish list, I think the CFO is gonna have to cough up more funds for a new business truck! LOL! The more boats you look at, the better idea you will have on what your wants and needs are. Enjoy the process!

 

[Hai Nhi]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

Ted,

Thanks for the quick respond. I went through your boat sites a couple of times. Just read it again before posting your reply. In your journal, you mentioned about skipping the cruiser. Can you pls tell me why? The first boat I looked at (1996 Wellcraft) is a cruiser too I think. Looks just like the first one pictured on your site, also with the antenna arch and what not.

Your 330SS is very nice. I checked in my area for a 2000 280 SS, asking price is $43k. Hahaha. I need a mortgage for that.

Also, what vehicle you're using to tow? My F250 is only a regular cab so I can't take my family of 4 with me in it.

Nhi

 

[Hai Nhi]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

Thank you for the welcome! I tow my trailer pretty much every other day so I think I can handle it.

I looked at my neighbor Trophy finishing boat, only 18'. Looks pretty small to me. I'm not sure if the 2001 Bayliner 19' cuddy (listed for $9000 on CL) is any more spacious than that. Looking at Ted's pictures on his Formula, I really like how the Formula 28' looks. Hahaha. But again, it'll break my bank.

My wife did tell me that if I'm to trade the truck in, she'd be "okay" with it. As long as I only have to pay about ... ~$5-$7K more. Hehehehe. Yeah, that's how much I told her it would cost roughly. I'm working with a friend of a buddy of mine who's a fleet manager @ GMC to see what kind of deal he can come up for a crew cab, long bed work truck. I should have some number by this Friday.

As far as the boat budget goes, if I find something really nice, I still can .... negotiate with her again to increase the budget. Max probably $20K - partially financed, but $12-$15K would be ideal.

Nhi

Congratulations on wanting to join the ranks of boaters and joining iboats. Remember there are lots of great boating accessories on this site to add to your boating experience once you buy your first dream boat! From your camping background, you will love boating. And you can spend years on the same lake and never get bored! There is always something new to see and experience.

Normally I would recommend going smaller for your first boat, but since you are in construction and probably very familiar with towing, and your desire is to camp AND boat, the larger I/O will be good for you.

look around ... It is the season where it is the buyers market. Make sure there are no soft spots on the floor. When you decide on the boat that fits your family and budget, get a surveyor. And with your wish list, I think the CFO is gonna have to cough up more funds for a new business truck! LOL! The more boats you look at, the better idea you will have on what your wants and needs are. Enjoy the process!

 

[Hai Nhi]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

What everyone think about this one:

1997 Rinker 232 Captiva, listed for $15900.
- 430 HP 502 MERCRUISER with BRAVO ONE
- CORSA Silent Choice Exhaust
- STAINLESS STEEL Prop
- BIMINI TOP and FULL CANVAS TOP
- Newer Cover
- New Fresh water impeller
- 545 HOUR
- DHM Custom Built Trailer

I'm requesting some photos from seller.

Thanks.

Nhi

 

[tpenfield]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

Ted,

Thanks for the quick respond. I went through your boat sites a couple of times. Just read it again before posting your reply. In your journal, you mentioned about skipping the cruiser. Can you pls tell me why? The first boat I looked at (1996 Wellcraft) is a cruiser too I think. Looks just like the first one pictured on your site, also with the antenna arch and what not.

Your 330SS is very nice. I checked in my area for a 2000 280 SS, asking price is $43k. Hahaha. I need a mortgage for that.

Also, what vehicle you're using to tow? My F250 is only a regular cab so I can't take my family of 4 with me in it.

Nhi

My brother owned a 24 foot cruiser many years ago and it was a pig . . . too heavy for its length. BUT I did want to get a feel for what a 30+ foot cruiser was like as we looked for another boat . . . too much cabin and not enough cockpit seating area and places for the sun worshippers in my crew. So, we passed. I have seen some cruisers try to do watersports, mostly tubing, and they looked a bit out of place.

My personal preference would have been the Deep-V go-fast boat, but there was no room for people (5 max). So, the big "sport boat" (aka sun sport) seemed to be a good compromise (SeaRay makes a few, Formula, Cobalt, and a few others) A lot of manufacturers just make cruisers when it comes to the 28-30+ size range.

As far as utility of the Sun Sport, we can sleep over on it, it has an enclosed head (bathroom), and can take about 10-12 people with ease. It is a matter of what 'feels' right for you. You just want to search enough to make sure you get something you can be happy with in the long run.

I bought my 24 footer in 2005 and originally was budgeting about $10-12K, but after looking around and becoming familiar with boat brands, styling, quality, etc., I ended up in the low $20K range. Recently, when I was looking at 28-33 foot boats, the prices were not that much different between the two sizes. So, I'm glad I ended up with the high end of the scale, saves me from wanting a bigger boat in a few years.

I have the boat professionally hauled by a local boat hauler, I believe he has an F450, but a 350 would do it for my boat.

Keep in mind that asking prices on used boats will typically be high versus what they actually sell for. As you look you will find the person that really wants to sell their boat; they will be more towards reality. I know that some of the boats that I looked at and did not buy ended up going for a lot less than the original asking price (like 25-30% less). I have also noticed that some of the boats that did not lower their price are still on the market. As a matter of fact, that Go-fast boat I looked at in July can still be had . . .

I recommend getting the monthly subscription to BUCvaluePro for pricing guides (about $27/mo). It tends to be a bit more on-target than NADAguides and it is always good to get a couple of reference points.

Good luck with your search

BTW - Chaparral makes/made a "276" (as I recall), that my be a good fit.

 

[aspeck]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

When I bought my last boat the asking price was around $8500. I bought it for $5300. My "budget" was $5000. I was happy, and still am! As long admit is done respectfully, it never hurts to ask a lower price... I know you know this already, but asking price is only a guide ... Buyers market right now! Enjoy the process. Almost like dating again! :laugh:

 

[JoLin]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

What everyone think about this one:

1997 Rinker 232 Captiva, listed for $15900.
- 430 HP 502 MERCRUISER with BRAVO ONE
- CORSA Silent Choice Exhaust
- STAINLESS STEEL Prop
- BIMINI TOP and FULL CANVAS TOP
- Newer Cover
- New Fresh water impeller
- 545 HOUR
- DHM Custom Built Trailer

I'm requesting some photos from seller.

Thanks.

Nhi

That'll be a cuddy cabin, suitable for taking a nap and not much else. Just by virue of the power plant, I can surmise that its primary purpose is to 'go fast'

I'd suggest that you get on Yachtworld and Boattrader and start by looking at pics of boats in the 24-26' class. You'll see the differences between cuddies and express cruisers. If you want to see a boat with a lot of living space for its size, look up the Bayliner 2452 Ciera Classic. I nearly bought one once. Don't know where in CA you live, but boat show season should be upon you. Go and take a look at what's out there.

Finally, I agree that the Highlander won't cut it for a boat in that size class. You can figure a weight in excess of 7000 lbs. for boat, trailer, on-board fuel and gear.

 

[Hai Nhi]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

So Ted, you said with your 24 footer you never stay over night on board. How's so? You don't like it? Or don't have a chance to?

What most people use the cabin on their cuddy/express cruiser for? If you sleep in it, can you please describe the scenario (like where you anchor, how many people, how long, what you bring, what's the feeling like, etc...)?

Our idea of getting a boat with cabin is that, on a one day trip, we can be out the water whole day because we got the toilet. And we can take a nap at lunch time or for the kids to sleep if tired. Then, if comfortable enough to sleep in, we can take it for the weekends once in a while without having to book for camp site. Is that practical? If it is, I guess as John suggested, 24-26' class express cruiser (or whatever it calls) probably fit me better, right?

I think I should look at that 1996 Wellcraft one more time. Looks like the Bayliner 2452 Ciera Classic too and should accomidate 9-10 people on board I think.

Nhi

 

[Hai Nhi]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

BTW - Chaparral makes/made a "276" (as I recall), that my be a good fit.

I also saw a listing for a 1997 Chaparral 240 Signature for $19000. Looks pretty sharp. Similar profile as for the other 1996 Wellcraft I was mentioning, only the Wellcraft listed lower.

When people list too high compared to Nada Guide (in both of these 2 cases, asking price is about $5-$7K above), but you still want to make an offer, what you usually do? Hahaha.

Nhi

 

[aspeck]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

Nhi, remember that your idea of comfortable and someone else's might be entirely different. This is why you have to check out different boats/styles. See what you feel comfortable in. Lay in the berths. Check out the amenities. Will they fit your style of camping? Where will you store your other camping gear, or will you not need any? What about after the kids grow and get older? How will it fit then? Remember, they grow fast! Can't believe my youngest is 11 already and as tall as her mother!

It is great to get other's opinions, but I will not be sleeping in your boat (unless you invite me, then maybe! LOL!), you and your family will be there. So the question for you is, how would all of you fit and feel in the boats you are looking at. Do you think you would be comfortable in an express or cuddy cruiser or do you need a bigger cruiser?

 

[LippCJ7]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

I think what the guys are trying to tell you is that sleeping on a 24' cuddy is cramped and not the best for a weekend since after one night you and your significant other are probably tired of seeing each other...

Boats have a fatal flaw, they get small very quickly

Of course some may disagree but there you go

 

[emilsr]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

We've had a 26' sportboat (with a cuddy) for 4 years now; slept on it twice, and doubful we will do it again...and there's only 2 of us (and 2 dogs). Boats that size, even the "pocket cruisers", really don't have enough room below decks for comfortable accomodations. The berths usually don't have enough padding anyway for my old bones. Of course if you get in the cooler hard enough you can sleep anywhere, but it won't be a restful sleep.

My advice (FWIW) is to stick with camping and get some sort of day boat. Open bow runabouts in the 18-19' range are particularly versatile for what you want to do, but I wouldn't try loading up the gear and the kids AND trying to pull that much of a boat behind a Highlander. Tell wifey she's getting a Tahoe instead....that'll work for a 19' day boat.

I've been "boat camping" most of my life. Love it. There's no particular reason you have to sleep on the boat at night.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

So Ted, you said with your 24 footer you never stay over night on board. How's so? You don't like it? Or don't have a chance to?

What most people use the cabin on their cuddy/express cruiser for? If you sleep in it, can you please describe the scenario (like where you anchor, how many people, how long, what you bring, what's the feeling like, etc...)?

Our idea of getting a boat with cabin is that, on a one day trip, we can be out the water whole day because we got the toilet. And we can take a nap at lunch time or for the kids to sleep if tired. Then, if comfortable enough to sleep in, we can take it for the weekends once in a while without having to book for camp site. Is that practical? If it is, I guess as John suggested, 24-26' class express cruiser (or whatever it calls) probably fit me better, right?

I think I should look at that 1996 Wellcraft one more time. Looks like the Bayliner 2452 Ciera Classic too and should accomidate 9-10 people on board I think.

Nhi

Yea, the cabin on a cuddy is really too small to be comfortable. So, it ended up being used as the restroom (porta-pottie) and a storage closet ( pfd's, tubes, wake boards, supplies, etc.). So, there was never any real motivation to stay overnight, because we would have to relocate all of that junk.

i had similar visions of being able to use the cuddy for overnights, when I first bought the boat, but the reality of it was different. A full cabin boat ( I.e. cruiser ) would be different and could accommodate overnight, but less agile as a day boat for water sports, etc. Express cruisers are sort of a cross between a cruiser and a cuddy. So, you get enough cabin space, but still have decent cockpit space and day boat agility. That is what I recalled about the Chaparral 276 SSx model.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

When people list too high compared to Nada Guide (in both of these 2 cases, asking price is about $5-$7K above), but you still want to make an offer, what you usually do? Hahaha.

Nhi

if I am interested in a boat and the asking price is high, I usually ask the seller about how they came up with their asking price. That puts the bug in their ear. Usually they will follow up in a few days and you can broach the subject more specifically, that you are not prepared to pay their price. It also helps if you have some lower priced options.

Depending on their situation and the level of interest that other people may or may not be showing in the boat, you may have a deal in the making. It usually takes a certain amount of time for the seller to adjust their thinking, so it is not something that you can hit them with up front when you first see the boat.

 

[Mischief Managed]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

We have a 25 foot trailered cuddy that sleeps 2 adults and 2 kids in comfort. My kids have grown and rarely sleep aboard, but they used to when they were little and we LOVED sleeping aboard as a family. My wife and I still sleep aboard quite a bit (10 times a season or so), but we use the boat mostly for day trips, almost always with guests aboard and water sports.

We visit the same bodies of water often out of convenience, but also explore some place new every year. I live near the NH coast and the lakes regions of ME and NH, so there's lots to see around here and we don't get bored.

This is the same make and model of my boat: Used 1999 Regal 2550 Lsc, Cincinnati, Oh - 45226 - BoatTrader.com Mine is not for sale.

 

[Hai Nhi]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

I truly can't thank enough: your responds are all so to-the-point and exactly the type of answer I'm looking for.

Super forum! Super posters! Very cool boaters .

I looked at a Chaparral 240 signature earlier today and liked it a lot for the layout, the look and size. Too bad it doesn't come w a trailer, and he wants $16000 firm for it.

I'm gonna come back and check the wellcraft 26se tomorrow to see if we can make a deal. This is a 1996. How much you guys think it's worth, providing everything is in fair condition?

Nhi

 

[Globetrottin1]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

Welcome NHi,

If it helps you at all, check out my thread on my "new" 1988 Chris Craft. Look in the forums under Chris Craft for the thread. I purchased my boat in November of last year. It's a 284. It may be a little too big to pull lake to lake but I think the style of the cabin is just what your looking for. It's like an RV on water, or at least a pop up camper it has a small dinette area where the seats fold down to make a small bed, an aft cabin that sleeps two adults and a forward berth that sleeps two. It has a head with wash basin and originally a shower (removed). It also has a galley complete with dual fuel cook top and dual voltage refrigerator.
There's plenty of room for your family to stay and be pretty comfortable. There's also plenty of room for more guests as the rear deck area is very spacious. At this size however, it is powered by two V8 engines and weighs in at 8200 lbs. The beam is 10' 2" which requires permits to pull on some roads.
Being in CA, I could see wanting to sleep on the boat as I hear there are a lot of critters out there (bears, snakes, mountain lions, etc). I'd be sleeping on board too!
Since the boat is 25 years old, I had it surveyed and was present for that. Highly recommend when the deal gets down to settling. Better to spend $500 and be sure than to have a $10,000 boat become a $20,000 mistake IMO.
Don't know if any of this info helps or not but I wanted to throw it out there. There are a bunch of pics of the one I got on my threads.

Best of luck!

 

[Hai Nhi]

Re: One More "New Boat for Newbie" Question ...

That's a big boat!!!

I checked your boat out on the other thread. Looks really good. Thanks for sharing!

I'm okay with 24-26 for now. Hehehe.

Pretty exciting. I'm looking for a surveyor in my area. If anyone knows of a good one, please recommend. The boat is near San Jose, CA.

Thanks gain.

Nhi