Opinions on buy or build sailboat project

[goldhunter_2]

Ok I am looking for some experienced opinions to help decide witch of these two choices is the best overall in the long run. Unfortunately I can't just go out a buy the turn key sailboat suitable for what I want the budget just isn't there...lol I need either to build or buy one to restore I believe I can build a little bit larger boat then I could buy but not sure witch is a better choice in the long run as building would allow a custom aluminum hull meeting all my needs but take longer where as a fiberglass project would be a quicker finish but I would have to sacrifice several features . Another concern with building aluminum hull is the cost of doing all new rigging like mast, sails everything all at once

My two options are:

1) Buy around a 40' shoal draft single keel fiberglass hull and completely gut and refinish the inside, motor, inspect and replace rigging as needed and everything else. most likely rigged as a sloop or cutter

2) Build a Aluminum hull 40-60' allowing features I wanted like a true twin keels (not bilge keel) Shoal draft, sleek look of flush deck with only a rear pilot house above , small cargo hold, able to sit high and dry when tide goes out, rigged as a cutter or ketch


My intended use of the finished vessel for the first few years is bouncing around the islands (Bahamas , virgins, gran cayman etc etc ) then later when my youngest son goes off to school I would like to do some cursing


Ok so if these where your two choices and you where a competent builder also good at restoration witch choice overall do you thing is a better fit both for intended use and finished expense?

PS: I am finishing up a truck project this year so it will be this time next year probably before I actual started working on it but have started looking around at hull now and trying to decide witch way to go

 

[dave11]

Re: Opinions on buy or build sailboat project

Build what YOU want. It will be a boat you will have and enjoy forever.

 

[Varago]

Re: Opinions on buy or build sailboat project

One question for you goldhunter how much exp do you have offshore and outfitting sail boats?

Dave

 

[goldhunter_2]

Re: Opinions on buy or build sailboat project

Varago,
I say I have "some" The reason I am lite on that is I have been away form sailing anything for about 10-12 years now but I grew up sailing the Chesapeake bay and surrounding areas not as much what I personally would consider off shore sailing but being away so long there will be allot I have to refresh on . As far as building skills I have been building various hulls over the years in wood glass and aluminum but nothing bigger then a 33'er

did that help?

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Opinions on buy or build sailboat project

There are people that design hulls for a living.... it really is a science. I would restore a current hull and avoid the hull design aspect.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Opinions on buy or build sailboat project

You mention budget, but give no indication of what that might be.
40k?
80k?
150k?
250k?
500k?

Sure would be a lot quicker and easier to retro a used boat, and in todays market, you can get a lot of goat for under 100 grand.
Building from scratch is gonna take a lot more $

 

[bhammer]

Re: Opinions on buy or build sailboat project

Me personally, I would get the most stripped down largest glass hull I could find and start from there. There is a lot a science that goes into a hull design. If you could find a stripped down hull, you may be able to go bigger and do it for less than what materials would cost you in a straight build project. This would allow you to furnish the boat the way you wanted as well.

I have seen a couple hulls in a grave yard that literally didn't have anything in them, some with bulkheads torn out as well. One of them, the guy told me that he would charge me $100 to haul it to my house and that was all it would cost. It was a sloop that was about 35'.

I have a buddy that is rebuilding a 25' and has torn out everything and starting from scratch.

 

[goldhunter_2]

Re: Opinions on buy or build sailboat project

It seems the design part is what is scaring most off on this topic, I was trying not to get into that aspect but it isn't one of my concerns .

After reading the reply's I am still confused what the general opinion is if fiberglass is a better hull or aluminum


Budget I was again trying to leave that off because one person may have access to things making the same amount of funding go future then someone else so was trying to avoid that argument if possibly . I know what I pay for Marnie grade aluminum now and have a fair estimate of the hull cost and would say it is comparable to around the 30' fiberglass TLC boats I have been looking at and if I added having a set of CNC files drawn would save me allot of time compared to hand layout & cutting but would put the cost in the range of a 38-40' fiberglass TLC boat. I am estimating around the $100K mark to be sail-able maybe with some future upgrades so it is differently a tight budget but will do majority of work myself to save on labor and don't need storage yard either again helps on cost

I guess based on the public poll I will keep watching for a fiberglass twin keel hull around 40'+ but there hard to find around here in that size range

thanks everyone for the input

 

[JimS123]

Re: Opinions on buy or build sailboat project

When I was 5 years old and Grandpa let me steer the boat, I knew I wanted one. In college, funded by a part time job, I decided to buy one. Couldn't afford it. Then, I saw a story in Popular Mechanics about building plywood boats. That year Grandpa retired and Grandma died. When I suggested the idea Grandpa just jumped right in. He was a carpenter by trade. I have to say that was the most satisfying experience I ever had in my whole life. It turned out to be a family affair and given the chance I would do it over in a heartbeat.

We worked from plans so the designing was already done. As you and others have pointed out, you probably should not design it yourself unless you're a marine architect.

Years ago the Maintenance Manager at the plant where I worked built a 40 something foot sailboat just like I envision what you want. He finished it in time for retirement and sailed it down south. I visited him often and shared my experiences with him as well.

Being an Engineer, he DID get plans somewhere and worked from them. He built a mold out of plywood and faired it up with wood fibered plaster. Then, the hull infrastructure was built up with a gazillion pieces of rebar, all welded together. The final "binder" was a high strength portland cement...!!!

At the time I laughed at building a "concrete" boat, but after going to the library and researching "ferrocement boats" I was highly impressed. His finished craft was solid as a rock and looked more like steel that cement.

If glass or aluminum were the 2 choices, I'd go with aluminum. I'm assuming you have the knowledge to weld and fabricate. That's just my opinion. I've worked with glass repairs, but seems to me it's just too big a project to do without a factory. In either case, I'd be looking for CAD drawings of a good hull design.

I've also restored an old boat and currently own it. It's certainly a treasure and its won numerous boat show awards. But the boat I built myself will always be MY boat.

Whatever you chose, I'd say Go for it. You won't regret it.

 

[goldhunter_2]

Re: Opinions on buy or build sailboat project

I have already spoken to a couple marine architects and they seem willing to put my plans into a cad cnc cut files for me , I did also look at available plans and saw some nice designs but not the one that was just right if you know what I mean.

you are correct in assume I have the knowledge to design, weld and fabricate. I have built many boats in wood, wood core, fiberglass, fiberglass core, and aluminum....................... but never a concrete "ferrocement" boat .... lol and you are also right those memories made with a family build project (of anything) are ones you will never forget I have many great memories with my boys form just such projects

 

[Varago]

Re: Opinions on buy or build sailboat project

Goldhunder the reason I ask is here in the NW there is/was a boat maker that you could buy in kit and build it yourself, Cascade was the brand. Anyway the problems that I saw were 1 people were buying the kits and doing the work themselves when they had never even been sailing before much less offshore, a high percentage of them did make it offshore ONCE then came back and sold the boat for a faction of cost. Number 2 is unless you have been offshore in bad weather there is NO way on Gods green world you have idea for the forces involved on the hull and rigging. And the sad part was the people who sold their dream boat got very little out of them for the simple reason that NO ONE in there right mind would buy a hand build boat made by someone that had NO idea of what they were doing.

You seem to have a handle on it

Have you considered a ~30' boat, there are some very compelling reasons for a shorter boat? Have you read any of the Hal Roth books, very good reading. I found the "Log of the Mahina" full of info for curising, by John Neal. Sailing was my life till KIDS.

PS this has been a hot key for me for the past 30 years

 

[goldhunter_2]

Re: Opinions on buy or build sailboat project

Varago,
I guess I have been lucky when I did sell past boats always seemed to do Ok on the deal, but if I ever had a boat that like you are implying that made me feel unsafe I personally would rather cut it up and scrap it then sell her. yes that would be allot of wasted money but what price can you put on a clean concision . Ideally this boat will basically be my retirement home and hopefully will not have to be sold until I am dead and gone ...lol

I am located only about 90 miles form Bahamas right now so I see allot of people with boats as small as 21',23',25',27',30' trailer-able sailboat that bounce over to the islands so I did consider a 30'-35' boat and just decided for my personally use I wanted a 40' - 60' was better for my intended overall use. And yes I to have seen many of those "kit" boats unfinished or just completed for sale also most at super low prices well below the cost of the kit even

I look at like this; all boats have advantages an disadvantages and we all have to comprise on what will suit our own needs best for where and how we plan to use her ........ at least that is how I look at it

no I can't say I have read any of his books but would have to double check back though some old boxes of literature as honestly don't remember very many of them now.


I will have to watch around here locally a bit longer to see if any twin keel TLC projects come up for sale before I decide