outboard vs I/O

[mnypitboat]

I know this is probably a heated topic, but after talking to a buddy yesterday it really makes me glad I have an I/O.

I just put an engine in my boat, a Mercruiser 350. I made some mistakes along the way, that cost me some cash, but total investment into this engine replacement, including water pump, gimbal bearing, new prop, new impeller in the outdrive, completely new/rebuilt engine from bottom to top, new starter and a new battery was less than $2500. Yes I did most of the work, but I paid someone else to do the gimbal bearing and impeller and to put my bottom end together and that was nearly $1000 of the bill. I also had to pay a tow truck to come pull my old engine because my hoist isnt tall enough too.

My buddy has an Outboard, and I apologize, I cant remember what it is other than its a 250. He calls me up yesterday asking me about his engine. I quickly told him I know virtually nothing about outboards and suggested iboats. He just got the boat and took it out once and it is getting sluggish, then he taps on the coil pack and it peps right back up. OK sounds easy enough. So he takes it in to have it looked at and a little general maintainance, since he just got it. They changed out the water pump, 2 coil packs, and something that sounds pretty much like an alternator to me, did some fluid changes, and the bill totalled almost $3000. Now maybe they raped him on labor, but damn.

Had I not screwed up and bought a junk used engine I would have probably been under $2000. Had I shopped around, I could have replaced the engine, every accessory on the engine and the outdrive for less than what he paid for some general maintanance.

I think I will stick to what I know. A simple Chevy 350 car type engine. They are abundant and easy to work on.

 

[airdvr1227]

Re: outboard vs I/O

Sounds like your friend got the wood laid to him. I agree about the basic I/O powerplant being easy to work on and abundant but even that's going away quickly. Emission controls, fuel injection, ECM's and the like are all on boats now.

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: outboard vs I/O

Sounds like your friend got the wood laid to him. I agree about the basic I/O powerplant being easy to work on and abundant but even that's going away quickly. Emission controls, fuel injection, ECM's and the like are all on boats now.

I guess that is one more reason to stick with an older boat.

I think they saw him coming. He seems to regularly overpay for service. LOL

 

[109jb]

Re: outboard vs I/O

Nothing wrong with I/O's. They have their benefits for sure. However, outboards have benefits too. a guy with an outboard will never pay for gimbal bearings, u-joints, bellows, boots. Will never have water come through the transom, etc. I prefer outboards personally and would say that your friend got raped.

Another point is that you aren't comparing apples to apples. Your friend paid a shop to do his work. You did your I/O work yourself. How much do you suppose it would have cost you to have a shop do your I/O engine??

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: outboard vs I/O

Nothing wrong with I/O's. They have their benefits for sure. However, outboards have benefits too. a guy with an outboard will never pay for gimbal bearings, u-joints, bellows, boots. Will never have water come through the transom, etc. I prefer outboards personally and would say that your friend got raped.

Another point is that you aren't comparing apples to apples. Your friend paid a shop to do his work. You did your I/O work yourself. How much do you suppose it would have cost you to have a shop do your I/O engine??

I did pay someone to do some of the work. Had I known what I was getting into, I would have paid someone to do it all. The price would have changed by exactly what I wasted on that junk engine. I was quoted $500. A complete Gimbal kit is just over $100, including gaskets and all bellows. The shop told me $200 to do it all, or $100 while the engine and outdrive were out. So everything front to back is still less than what he paid for some maintanance.

I do like the transom not having a hole in it though. I am looking at offshore boats for a future investment, and will be looking at outboards, unless I get a stellar deal on an I/O boat. I will then learn about them through the help of the guys here and manuals. I just cant get over how much they charged him. I dont know for sure what all they did, but from our phone conversation, that is all he told me they did. I told him to bring me the bill and I will try to make some sort of sense of it for him.

All in all, I still like my I/O for a bowrider. Quiet, hidden, easy to work on, CHEAP to work on. I am going to have an outboard, or if funds allow it, 2 of them eventually. I just hope I am not sorry.

 

[overkill]

Re: outboard vs I/O

hmmm...I remember working on my I/O... having a buddy hold my belt, while i hung upside down into the engine bay with my head pressed against the fiberglass, one hand holding onto the exhaust while i squeeze my other hand under the engine mount to try to reach a blind nut, turning it with one ratchet click at a time....
i was ecstatic the first time i worked on my outboard

but considering you can go out and buy a used 250 OB for $3500...i'm thinking he got taken
http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/boa/1884567294.html

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: outboard vs I/O

hmmm...I remember working on my I/O... having a buddy hold my belt, while i hung upside down into the engine bay with my head pressed against the fiberglass, one hand holding onto the exhaust while i squeeze my other hand under the engine mount to try to reach a blind nut, turning it with one ratchet click at a time....
i was ecstatic the first time i worked on my outboard

I have a huge engine compartment. I can climb right in there with the engine. With the rear seats back unscrewed(4 screws), the whole front is exposed. The other big issue I had was getting it out of the boat though. An OB can easily be pulled with my hoist. I paid a towtruck company over $100 to come lift it out.

 

[Sixmark]

Re: outboard vs I/O

I did pay someone to do some of the work. Had I known what I was getting into, I would have paid someone to do it all. The price would have changed by exactly what I wasted on that junk engine. I was quoted $500. A complete Gimbal kit is just over $100, including gaskets and all bellows. The shop told me $200 to do it all, or $100 while the engine and outdrive were out. So everything front to back is still less than what he paid for some maintanance.

I do like the transom not having a hole in it though. I am looking at offshore boats for a future investment, and will be looking at outboards, unless I get a stellar deal on an I/O boat. I will then learn about them through the help of the guys here and manuals. I just cant get over how much they charged him. I dont know for sure what all they did, but from our phone conversation, that is all he told me they did. I told him to bring me the bill and I will try to make some sort of sense of it for him.

All in all, I still like my I/O for a bowrider. Quiet, hidden, easy to work on, CHEAP to work on. I am going to have an outboard, or if funds allow it, 2 of them eventually. I just hope I am not sorry.

Well I have rebuilt several small block Chevy's and I can say that if I was to rebuild my outboard and rebuild a smallblock with a QUALITY rebuild doing it right, there is no way it would be cheaper to rebuild the Chevy, then you throw in rebulding an outdrive on top of it.

As said earlier there is definately not an apples to apples comparison here, and to be very blunt, your friend took the bait......hook, line, and sinker.

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: outboard vs I/O

Well I have rebuilt several small block Chevy's and I can say that if I was to rebuild my outboard and rebuild a smallblock with a QUALITY rebuild doing it right, there is no way it would be cheaper to rebuild the Chevy, then you throw in rebulding an outdrive on top of it.

As said earlier there is definately not an apples to apples comparison here, and to be very blunt, your friend took the bait......hook, line, and sinker.

I have a hard time believing its cheaper to build an outboard. Not only that, the parts are way more available for a Chevy small block.

I also see a huge supply of new and used parts for them.

Whenever I see parts for outboards, or I hear of someone getting one worked on, it seems like they are paying thousands and thousands of dollars.

I hope you are correct though. I will have 2 of them suckers on the back of my next boat. LOL

 

[LiquidRitz]

Re: outboard vs I/O

I can't find the serial number for my 1989 Blackmax 150 hp... PLEASE HELP!

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: outboard vs I/O

I can't find the serial number for my 1989 Blackmax 150 hp... PLEASE HELP!

Wrong thread, and wrong forum. You should be asking this under the Mercury outboard heading, and probably do a search. I bet someone has allready asked.

 

[Sixmark]

Re: outboard vs I/O

I have a hard time believing its cheaper to build an outboard. Not only that, the parts are way more available for a Chevy small block.

I also see a huge supply of new and used parts for them.

Whenever I see parts for outboards, or I hear of someone getting one worked on, it seems like they are paying thousands and thousands of dollars.

I hope you are correct though. I will have 2 of them suckers on the back of my next boat. LOL

I see alot of people paying a huge markup on outboard parts, that's where alot of the price comes into play, the trick is to have a good supplier.....here's an example using my 1984 75hp Evinrude:

Coil Packs (3 required) $33.00-$62.00/each depending on supplier
my price was $21.00/each

Power pack $133.00-$212.00/each depending on supplier
my price was $84.00

Now if I was having the shop install them they would charge for diagnosis time plus replacement time so let's just call it 2 hours at a minimum of $75/hr

They are also going to take the same parts I bought and mark them up anywhere from 100%-200% so I'll be nice and say $66.00 per coil and $266.00 for the power pack.

$147.00 with me doing it vs. $614.00 with takin it to a shop to have it done.

Keep in mind that I'm not getting special pricing, I just found a good supplier that isn't all about raping a persons wallet.

Coil packs, an ecm, and plug wires (they are included with coil packs for the Evinrude) for a small block chevy cannot be had for $147.00.

You have nothing to worry about with your 2 outboards, they are actually pretty simple to work on and you don't have to stand on your head to do it......they also don't require sucking out the oil to change it.....lol.

There are pros and cons to I/O's and O/B's and believe it or not I have had better luck finding parts for my outboard than for the I/O's , biggest issue I have is finding an exhaust manifold when you need one, they seem to have every one except the one you need at the moment.

 

[superpop]

Re: outboard vs I/O

This is really an apples to oranges comparison, both technologies have their benefits and negatives. I personally like the IO a little better just from an aesthetics and cosmetic perspective, but that is because I am always using the swim platform for water sports. The bottom line though is that both can be money pits if you do not know what you are doing or neglect either one. Before I knew better I spent over a grand on a tune up and carb rebuild on a 4.3L IO. Unfortunately there are plenty of shops out there that will gladly bend you over if you let them. I could do the same work now on my own for around 100 bucks in parts. That is the bottom line with either, sounds like your buddy got taken advantage of big time.

 

[Challenger84]

Re: outboard vs I/O

Well from my experience. I have both an inboard gm 305 and a Outboard 70 hp Johnson.
I like them both but the outboard is the easiest to work on.
Everything is right there at eye level.
If the starter gives out I can pull start it.
There is no oil to be changed.
Only maintenance I have to do is change the lower unit gear lube and impeller once every other session.

Regular maintenance for my OB.
$35 for impeller
$10 gear lube.
$10 sea-foam
I take really good care of my engine and that's all the maintenance she ask of me. (so far)

As for my 305 I've spent over $700 in parts for my tune up. (it's been sitting for over 7 years tho)
Impeller
spark plugs and wires
starter
thermostat
bearings
ign. coil
distributor
oil
oil filter
fuel filter
lower gear lube
I'm sure there are things I'm forgetting.

So long story short OB have less maintenance to worry about from my experience.

Oh yeah next time when your friend wants regular maintenance done on his outboard end him this way. For $3500 I can tune up at least 7-10 outboards and enough money left over to buy a really nice OB.

 

[Beefer]

Re: outboard vs I/O

Well from my experience. I have both an inboard gm 305 and a Outboard 70 hp Johnson.
I like them both but the outboard is the easiest to work on.
Everything is right there at eye level.
If the starter gives out I can pull start it.
There is no oil to be changed.
Only maintenance I have to do is change the lower unit gear lube and impeller once every other session.

Regular maintenance for my OB.
$35 for impeller
$10 gear lube.
$10 sea-foam
I take really good care of my engine and that's all the maintenance she ask of me. (so far)

As for my 305 I've spent over $700 in parts for my tune up. (it's been sitting for over 7 years tho)
Impeller
spark plugs and wires
starter
thermostat
bearings
ign. coil
distributor
oil
oil filter
fuel filter
lower gear lube
I'm sure there are things I'm forgetting.

So long story short OB have less maintenance to worry about from my experience.

Oh yeah next time when your friend wants regular maintenance done on his outboard end him this way. For $3500 I can tune up at least 7-10 outboards and enough money left over to buy a really nice OB.

Now I'm not saying you're numbers are off or anything, but Regular maintenance on an I/O will be pretty much the same as you said for the OB. And likewise, the tune-up components for the OB will be the same as for the I/O. Unless a tune-up for an OB doesn't include plugs, wires, fuel filter(s), etc. And I don't know that starters are part of a basic tune-up (there's minimum $150 of your total cost for the tune-up, and probably more). And if your OB is a 2-stroke, where is your cost for your 2-stroke oil that you need with your gas? If it's a 4-stroke, your oil & filter will offset that in the I/O's tune-up.

For general maintenance, I'd say it's almost a moot point.

 

[Sixmark]

Re: outboard vs I/O

Beefer,

Do we dare ask how much the maintenance is for the 1969 Smokin Hot Wife?.....lol.

 

[Beefer]

Re: outboard vs I/O

HeeHee

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: outboard vs I/O

I see alot of people paying a huge markup on outboard parts, that's where alot of the price comes into play, the trick is to have a good supplier.....here's an example using my 1984 75hp Evinrude:

Coil Packs (3 required) $33.00-$62.00/each depending on supplier
my price was $21.00/each

Power pack $133.00-$212.00/each depending on supplier
my price was $84.00

Now if I was having the shop install them they would charge for diagnosis time plus replacement time so let's just call it 2 hours at a minimum of $75/hr

They are also going to take the same parts I bought and mark them up anywhere from 100%-200% so I'll be nice and say $66.00 per coil and $266.00 for the power pack.

$147.00 with me doing it vs. $614.00 with takin it to a shop to have it done.

Keep in mind that I'm not getting special pricing, I just found a good supplier that isn't all about raping a persons wallet.

Coil packs, an ecm, and plug wires (they are included with coil packs for the Evinrude) for a small block chevy cannot be had for $147.00.

You have nothing to worry about with your 2 outboards, they are actually pretty simple to work on and you don't have to stand on your head to do it......they also don't require sucking out the oil to change it.....lol.

There are pros and cons to I/O's and O/B's and believe it or not I have had better luck finding parts for my outboard than for the I/O's , biggest issue I have is finding an exhaust manifold when you need one, they seem to have every one except the one you need at the moment.

Sounds like a lot of money to get spark. I can get a coil to supply spark for about $50, plug wires, plugs, cap rotor, I just did it last year. About $100 total, inculding the coil. ECM, well I have 3 of them sitting on a shelf that I got for free. I tested all of them and they work perfect. That is what I am getting at. I see parts on Craigslist all day long for a 350, but nothing for an outboard.

Everyone keeps saying apples and oranges. I am saying they both propel my boat. If I have an I/O or an outboard, they both keep me from going boating if they are broken. I replaced my engine, (completely rebuilt longblock), for less than $2500, including mistakes. Including a new prop, gimbal bearing, coil, starter, alternator, power steering pump etc, etc. The only thing I didnt do was the outdrive, and I know where there are about a dozen good used outdrives for $500 or less. How much is a replacement power head, not even mentioning the coils, alternator, etc etc? So who has rebuilt their outboard completely from top to bottom for less than $3000? Including all the extras? I can do it with my I/O. Maybe less now that I have made the stupid mistakes. I bet I could repower an I/O for less than $2000 from crank pulley to prop, including everyting in between.

 

[109jb]

Re: outboard vs I/O

You know what. We get it already. You love your cheap I/O and all of us must be stupid for having outboards because they are so darn expensive to even change the spark plugs on.

I have owned outboard powered boats for a couple decades now and have been around both outboards and I/O's for about 4 decades now and my personal experience is that the wrenches come out more often on the I/O's than on the outboards. On my personal boats over the last 20 years or so I have only done routine preventative maintenance and one lower unit (Last month). That's it, nothing more. Guess what. You can also get a REBUILT whole lower unit for an outboard for $300 if you shop around. On top of that, If my 115 hp outboard blew tomorrow I would be be able to find a good used complete replacement motor and then sell the old parts off of the original motor on e-bay and probably make a profit. I have parted out snowmobiles for profit in the past and have no doubt that I could do it with an outboard. I also wouldn't even have to stick with the same motor, only the same brand unless I want to change the throttle control too and then any brand would do. If your 350 chevy blew what would you be able to sell the parts for? The Long block would be virtually worthless and you would probably need it for a core anyway for the rebuilt longblock you will need to buy. Everything else you will need to keep. So you see I can make an argument that my outboard is much much cheaper than an I/O.

Regardless of what you claim, you are still not comparing apples to apples. Your buddy went to a shop and said fix my engine. He didn't scrounge for parts, and he didn't do ANY of the work himself. If you took your boat to a shop and said it needs a new motor, new prop, gimbal bearing, coil, starter, alternator, power steering pump etc, etc, and you let them do the work and pick where to get the parts, I guarantee you that you will have one heck of a big bill.

I/O's are fine, but comparing only yours and your buddies experiences is not any kind of equal comparison in my opinion.

 

[Sixmark]

Re: outboard vs I/O

Sounds like a lot of money to get spark. I can get a coil to supply spark for about $50, plug wires, plugs, cap rotor, I just did it last year. About $100 total, inculding the coil. ECM, well I have 3 of them sitting on a shelf that I got for free. I tested all of them and they work perfect. That is what I am getting at. I see parts on Craigslist all day long for a 350, but nothing for an outboard.

Everyone keeps saying apples and oranges. I am saying they both propel my boat. If I have an I/O or an outboard, they both keep me from going boating if they are broken. I replaced my engine, (completely rebuilt longblock), for less than $2500, including mistakes. Including a new prop, gimbal bearing, coil, starter, alternator, power steering pump etc, etc. The only thing I didnt do was the outdrive, and I know where there are about a dozen good used outdrives for $500 or less. How much is a replacement power head, not even mentioning the coils, alternator, etc etc? So who has rebuilt their outboard completely from top to bottom for less than $3000? Including all the extras? I can do it with my I/O. Maybe less now that I have made the stupid mistakes. I bet I could repower an I/O for less than $2000 from crank pulley to prop, including everyting in between.

Really? Where did you get 3 NEW!!! ecm's for free, last time I checked they don't give them away.

I made the point very clear and you skated around it, you are comparing used parts and your labor to new parts and shop labor.

A lot of money to get spark? well I guess I could have done without the coils but I figured I would replace them seeing how they were 26 years old