Over Powered?

jd reed

Recruit
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2
Re: Over Powered?

Your previous problem (pulling you out of the water) can and should be addressed by a change of props. You don't seem to know what you're talking about so I suggest you rid yourself of the 2oo.
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,752
Re: Over Powered?

You are leaving your ass-ets hanging out there if you over power your boat like that. You will be automatically "negligent with no regard for the law" if you have an accident. You may get insurance, but they won't pay if you have a claim. Many states have adopted the USCG rating as law.<br /><br />Your previous skiing problems are likely caused by<br />one of the following which could have been fixed.<br />
  • <br />
  • prop selection <br />
  • trim setting <br />
  • engine mount position <br />
  • hook or rocker in hull <br />
  • fuel delivery <br />
  • not being nice to the motor God <br />
  • poor maintenance <br />
  • weight distribution <br />
  • experience <br />
<br />Also, your at rest motor weight means very little to the transmon. We all know we could have 5 guys sit on the back of our boat when it is in the water, but what about when bouncing down the highway? And what about all those 200 hp and the torque you wouold be applying to the transom and hull.<br />Don't do it or you will just be one of those jerks that everybody hates, (and no one will help when you need a tow back to shore.)
 

wilkin250r

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
570
Re: Over Powered?

I apologize sincerely, I did not mean to personally attack anybody for trying to give me sound advise, and I do honestly thank you guys for helping me.<br /><br />ob, I personally apologize to you, I get the distint impression that you were offended by my response to your help, and I would like you to know that was not my intention.<br /><br />When I said I was a new to this, that was with respect to being a boat owner. I've been driving boats and waterskiing for many years. When I first entered into this forum, I had no idea about the HP rating of boats and possible problems associated with exceeding it. Perhaps I should have been more specific with my questions.<br /><br />Quite obvously, if I tried to put a 200hp engine on an inflatable raft, not only would it sink the raft, but if I ever had the opportunity to open the throttle the engine would rip forward through the center of the boat, sinking it and me. This should have been my first question. Will the structeral integrity of the boat handle more horsepower? This is taking into account only the first 50yrds of travel, neglecting the problems associated with the higher speed. Will the transom collapse due to excessive force caused by accelerating from 0 to 30mph? I haven't had a definite answer on this, but so far (assuming the transom is in good condition) I have no reason to believe that the boat cannot handle this. I am still open to advise in this area.<br /><br />As far as the issue concerning high speed, I believe (and you guys may just have to trust me on this one) that I have the skills to safely operate a boat up to 40mph, and that I have the self control not to exceed that speed and to not exceed my capabilities as a driver. I imagine this boat could possibly exceed 70mph with a 200hp engine on it, and frankly that scares me, and thus I never plan on driving it that fast. I also don't ever plan on having this boat in the ocean.<br /><br />It seems the majority of the advise I have been given involves safety at high speeds, which I appreciate. With the assumption that I have the skill and self-control necessary to operate at high speeds, and assuming that only somebody I trust to also control himself and the boat while I am skiing, are there any problems associated with exceeding the HP rating of the boat?
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: Over Powered?

Wilkin,No apology intended as I was not personally offended but rather somewhat frustrated.<br />There are several other factors besides top end speed and transoms structural ability to handle what I would consider as a substantially overpowered engine for your boats rating.The transoms structural ability being one that should not be taken lightly.Since this boat as you describe will be primarily used for skiing, the predictable added occupants will add another twist to the equation.Not to mention the sacrifice of stern freeboard,particularly when encountering a following sea and or boat wake situation.<br />The other situation that you will be contending with is the added load to transoms freeboard in an "out of hole "excersize when pulling skiers.<br />Additionally ,the added weight and horsepower of the motor above the boats design capabilities will alter the even keel posture of the boat when underway.<br />Limiting the motors rpms to remain in a safe handling speed to appease hull design and rating will also pose a challenge not only to the operator but the engines designed operating range.<br />I don't know of your states regulations on hp to boat ratings ,however on the Texas gulf coast and inland waterways you would be graciously escorted back to the dock if encountered by wildlife officials or the Coast Guard.
 

ob1jeeper

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
167
Re: Over Powered?

Wilkin,<br />Now I TRULY don't understand your hang Up, We ALL like to go fast, and have plenty of power... HOWEVER... With all of the GOOD Experienced advise you've gotten regarding:<br /><br />A- Safe operation issues, (Which by the way ..SHOULD.. be PLENTY of information from which to make a mature and sound decision...)<br /><br />and if your safety, and that of those who ride with you aren't enough to turn the light bulb on...<br />B- The potential legal issues you are facing, should have done the trick...<br /><br />Somehow you continue to want to persue a VERY ill-advised path. Could it be possible that you are TRULY too dense to understand the severity of the issues that are being relayed?<br /><br />Let's say for a moment, that you use too big a motor on land in your car, and you crack the frame... oops... gotta walk home...<br /><br />BUT, when at sea when a hull issue develops... This is NOT a good thing... You are NOT going to simply get out & walk home to call the tow truck, or borrow the neighbors chain to tow you home...<br /><br />Like has been said MANY times... EITHER Trade the motor for one which is properly sized for your hull... OR trade the hull, for one which is properly sized for the motor you so dearly want to use...<br /><br />'Nuff said... Obiwan Jeeper.
 

wilkin250r

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
570
Re: Over Powered?

I resent the implication that I may be too dense to fully realize the situation.<br /><br />I am an engineer, I'm not a moron, and the numbers don't make sense, which is why I'm on this forum seeking information and advise. Why can a 16ft I/O have a 240HP engine, while an outboard is only rated at 125?<br /><br />ob, you brought up a VERY good point about the rpm operating range of the engine, a factor I had not taken into account. Thank you, it is the little points of information such as these that I joined this forum. Being an avid motocross rider, I am very familiar with the powerband of two-stroke engines. If outboard engines behave in a similiar fashion, it may prove very difficult to keep this motor under control.<br /><br />I have seen many occasions where somebody has squeezed a big-block Chevy with a supercharger into a small, low-profile boat hull. Quite obviously this would exceed the HP rating of the hull. Why would such an act be acceptable with an I/O, but not an outboard?<br /><br />As for legal issues, I have already verified that there are no laws in the state of Nevada against exceeding the HP rating of the hull.<br /><br />If I had stated (before this all started) that I wished to put a 115hp four-stroke on my boat, I don't think anybody would object. They would tell me to make sure my transom is not rotted, but they would not be pointing at the added stress caused by bouncing off 3ft. waves at full speed, even though four-stroke weighs 10lbs. more than the 200hp two-stroke. The same dangers of hull damage are present in both situation, but its only with the 200hp that I'm "dense"!<br /><br />To clear up the issue of my thick skull, it's not that I am not listening, I am merely presenting the counter-argument. When somebody points out that the structural strength of the hull is not designed to handle more than the rated HP engine, I point out that the HP rating has NOTHING to do with the strength of the hull, it has to do with high-speed handling characteristics. Then, it is pointed out that the boat is not designed to handle the speeds that a 200HP can produce. I agree, which is why I don't plan in pushing my boat to those speeds. Then ob pointed out the rpm range, and that it may be harder to control the speed than I realize. Good, valid point, I concede, that is a very solid argument against this engine.<br /><br />Likewise, I don't have a "need for speed" I am looking to make one of my small dreams come true, to have my own skiing boat.<br /><br />To sum up, let me present the arguments from my point of view.<br /><br />Question: Can I use the motor I have?<br /><br />Argue: Structural strength of the hull isn't designed for anything beyond the rated HP.<br /><br />Response: The rating isn't based on strength and weight.<br /><br />Argue: The boat isn't designed to go that fast, you will endanger yourself and others.<br /><br />Response: I agree, I don't plan on going that fast.<br /><br />Argue: You may find controlling the speed difficult due to the charateristics of the engine (rpm range).<br /><br />Response: I agree. Solid arguement. Any other reasons?<br /><br />Argue: Legal issues.<br /><br />Response: I checked the laws already, no legal issues.<br /><br />As far as comparing the handling charateristics of a boat to that of a car, that is not the argument I was making. The hp rating of a boat is based on the ability to execute a sharp turn at max speed without loss of control, which I said was absurd because cars can't do it, yet they don't have the same restrictions on HP ratings. I was reffering to driver control. If I can be trusted not to execute a sharp turn at high speed in a car, I should be able to exercise the same level of control in a boat.
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: Over Powered?

Wilkin,What is the exact year, model, and specific length and beam dimensions of boat in question?
 

wilkin250r

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
570
Re: Over Powered?

And once again, I apologize if I am offending anybody, or if anybody is getting frustrated. I really do thank all of you guys for your advise.<br /><br />As an engineer, this is just the way I am. If somebody give me a reason, the first thing I am going to do is present the counter-arguement to see if the reason holds water. (Get it, holds water, we're talking about boats, :rolleyes: )<br /><br />I readily admit that buying the 200hp engine was a bad idea. Right now, I'm looking at whether I can use it until I get another engine, (as long as I'm very careful) or do I need to sell it right away and take a loss.
 

wilkin250r

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
570
Re: Over Powered?

It's a 1989 Bayliner Capri. I don't have the exact dimensions, I'll have to look them up. I estimate it's between 15 and 18ft, and roughly 8ft. wide.
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: Over Powered?

Here's a list of the capri models from 1989.<br /><br />CAPRI SERIES <br /> 1500 BR (CV)(*) - 15' 1700 BR (CR)(*) - 17' <br /><br /> 1702 CUDDY (CC)(*) - 17' 1750 BR (CS)(**) - 17' <br /><br /> 1770 BR (CH)(**) - 17' 1900 BR (CG)(*) - 19' <br /><br /> 1901 BR SKI (CL)(*) - 19' 1902 CUDDY (CJ)(*) - 19' <br /><br /> 1950 BR (CX)(**) - 19' 1952 CUDDY (CK) - 19' <br /><br /> 1952 CUDDY (CK)(**) - 19' 1970 BR (CP)(**) - 19' <br /><br /> 2150 BR (CF)(**) - 21' 2152 CUDDY (CA) - 21' <br /><br /> 2152 CUDDY (CA)(**) - 21'
 

wilkin250r

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
570
Re: Over Powered?

Hmm, I don't think it's a 19ft. I don't have the model number on hand, and the boat is an hour drive away, so I can't just go outside and look.<br /><br />Do you have any idea which of those would be an outboard? I'd be more inclined to believe it's the 15' model as opposed to the 17' model.
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: Over Powered?

Both the 1500 and 1700 .Here's Bayliners website .They list all current models and their specs and ratings for comparison.Impossible to advise any further without boat specifics.<br />www.bayliner.com
 

wilkin250r

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
570
Re: Over Powered?

I never really payed attention to the model and size of boats I've ridden or drove, I was always more interested in being on the skis, so I'm a pretty bad judge of the length of my boat.<br /><br />I can tell you that it is larger than the new 16' they have on the website, which would make mine most likely the 1700?
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: Over Powered?

Here's a pic of a 1989 1500 capri.As you can see it would be suicide to bolt a 200 on it.I will also post a pic of a 92' 1700 capri.The 1700 shown is rigged with a 70 hp.Would likely handle more but 200 is pushing the envelope.<br />
1500_bayliner_capri.art
<br /><br />
bayliner_1700.art
 

wilkin250r

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 9, 2003
Messages
570
Re: Over Powered?

I don't know if something is wrong with my settings, or if the pictured did not load properly, but I cannot view them.
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,752
Re: Over Powered?

Would you mount a 1800cc cycle engine in a frame for a 125? Not! Well maybe you would. But it won't last and wouldn't be safe. You're an engineer, so gather the numbers and do the math. Then put a blower and n2o2 system on it and have fun, for 5 minutes. <br /><br />Have you checked with you insurance company on this?
 

1bigdog1

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
41
Re: Over Powered?

OK, well heres one for ya to gripe about. I have a 19' V-hull rated for a 165 HP, and I have a 235 HP on it. No problem at all, just have to use a little common sense. The only time I ever open it up is if im pulling up a skier, or on smooth open water, otherwise its nice to be able to cruise at 35mph at 1/2 throttle.
 

Chinewalker

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
8,902
Re: Over Powered?

Wilkins, I would not under ANY circumstances install a 200hp on a boat (particularly a Bayliner, which as a brand has a spotty record at best) rated for 125hp. That's about 70% over the rated power. That's one thing if you're setting up a true go-fast boat like a Hydrostream or Allison, but not a Bayliner. The structual integrity of the boat simply WILL NOT handle the extra weight and torque. Your motor acts as a lever on the transom. The prop adds force forward, with the fulcrum at the transom mount. When the transom flexes (and it will!) it will also make the bottom of the boat flex. Something will give!! Forget the legalities, insurance issues, etc. THE BOAT WILL BREAK!!! <br /><br />When that boat is delivered with a small-block V8 Inboard Outboard unit, it has alterations in its basic design to handle it! The weight is distributed differently and the boat has beefier stringers (lengthwise strength members) to handle it. If you trade in or resell your 200, you won't take a loss (unless you way overpaid for it in the first place) - spring is coming and people will be looking to buy motors soon, particularly good used ones. If your old motor couldn't get you out of the hole, it was either a tired motor to begin with, or you were using the wrong prop...<br /><br />- Scott
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: Over Powered?

BigDog,Who's griping?Just not sure whether exceeding rated horsepower on a given boat <br />and the term "common sense" should be used in the same paragraph.Perhaps "gonads" is more appropriate. ;)To each his own.<br />However to advise or suggest someone to exceed rated limits on a boat because of your personal <br />choice is irresponsible.
 
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