paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

[naughtybynature]

just got back from the lake. here's what happened. last week after a good run i shut motor off. went to start again about a minute later... nothing. went home tracked it to the brush wire on the positive terminal inside the starter motor. no prob, soldered it together. problem solved. yesterday, ran the motor, turned off, restart... nothing! wait an hour, starts. today, ran hard for awhile, trying different props. turn off to change another prop. try to start... nothing! pull boat home, turn key in driveway just to see and it starts!<br /><br />motor is a 93 merc 25hp electric choke and start remote controls.<br /><br />Q. do you think that when the motor gets hot my solder is melting breaking the circut when i try to start? or perhaps something similar (wire overheating) in the starter soleniod?<br /><br />your help would be appreciated. quit laughing guys!

 

[sloopy]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

what type of soder? (spelling)

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

silver solder? didn't know there were different kinds.

 

[BKool68]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

When it does not start you should check for voltage at the starter with a test light. It could be the starter ,the solenoid, the ignition switch or even a loose battery cable.

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

thanks bk.i will double check all that again in the morning, it was those checks that lead me to the problem last time. but the pattern of the latest problem leads me to believe that it has to do with overheating something... due to the time it takes to be able to start it again. too much of a coinsidence (sp) isn't it?

 

[JB]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

Hi, NBN.<br /><br />Could be several things. My first thought is a poor connection in one of the high current cables. The ground cable to the block is bad about getting corrosion under the tab.<br /><br />Next is a failing solenoid. Next time it refuses to turn over, jump the hot lead around the solenoid and see if it starts.<br /><br />Try the tests BK suggests. Only the starter should show a full 12v when engaged.<br /><br />Let us know what you find.

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

thanks jb. will take the tester to the lake tomorrow so i can see what's up when it goes again. it starts now in the driveway so hard to troubleshoot. i know all conections are good with no loose wires or corrosion. do a good visual inspection before each outing.

 

[poppopfishes2002]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

sounds to me it is a bad ground at the terminals as a motor will take a little more power to start when hot or warmed up. try cleaning all terminals and check battery for a bad cell

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

thanks pop. all connections are new or cleaned recently (you can eat off this motor) when i can't start it it dosn't ever turn over. no warning, just won't start. last night when it happened the motor started at the ramp, then i ran for a good 15 minutes testing out my new hydrofoil (see related post in appropriate forum.... that's for you jb), went into beach, changd prop. motor started fine, ran for another 15 minutes, went to beach changed props again, went to turn key to start..... nothing!

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

oh ya, battery is new and fully charged.

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

just went out to get the boat ready for a day at the lake. motor fired no problem. tested all leads to see if loose... no problems. tested battery, 12.35 volts, same as always. tested lead side of soleniod, 12.35 volts. tested positve side to starter motor, no voltage. (key in off position) did not test with key in start position because i know it starts..... for now. will fill you guys in tonight when i get home. got a busy day. first to the mopar car show, then to the lake to watch the waterski comp, then to the race track to watch some motocross. life sucks.

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

ok jb, here's what i have found so far... nothing!!! it definately is a pattern though. start motor, run it for a bit, turn motor off. nothing. no crank, nothing. wait a period of time, this can be 1/2 hour to 12 hrs, and it will start on first crank. i must have something to do with heat because last night i got home, put it away and it wouldn't start. come in here and get in trouble posting on this website... get up in morning and it starts!<br /><br />jb do you have any ideas at all? i know i'm going to have to rip that starter motor out again and check my soldering job, but still, why did it not start last night but then this morning? unless someone i pissed off from this forum is sneeking over at night and messing with it to make me CRAZY! thanks jb for your help.

 

[norman158]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

when this is in its no start mode do you hear a click from the solenoid?

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

norman you are right on the money, problem is that when ever it goes to no start mode i am be myself and i can't turn the key and stick my head close to the motor to hear the soleniod. if there is no click do you think that is the source of the problem? it can only be that or the solder job i did on the starter motor positive brush. thanks for the help.

 

[norman158]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

if there is no click at the solenoid there is no voltage going to the starter. means 2 things 1 bad solenoid.or 2 no voltage at the solenoid from ign switch (small wire on the side of solenoid)

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

ok norman, could that explain the pattern i have experienced? what is causing the no start after starting. then sitting for x amount of time, then starting?

 

[RICKRICK1]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

Could be your yellow wire (i think) in the harness has broken internally and when cool touches ends together andseparates after heating up by starting motor.

 

[RICKRICK1]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

Forgot-- Best to check for voltage at solinold when it wont start. If no voltage bad wire.

 

[butlp]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

Noughty,<br />I had a car that did the same thing a number of years ago. It would start from cold, but after it had run and the starter motor got hot something within the motor went open circuit. I took the motor off and had it rebuilt and never had the problem again.<br />I think Norman is on the right track to see if the solenoid clicks. <br />Next time you go out in the boat take a pair of jump leads with you. When it happens again, connect one end of the negative jump lead to the negative of your battery and connect the other end to a good metal lug or bolt on the starter motor and see if it starts. That should eliminate any grounding problems. <br />If it still does not want to start, connect the positive jump lead to the battery and touch the other end to the ign. terminal on the solenoid and see what happens.<br /><br />If no click its a bad solenoid or solenoid ground. Again you can check the ground with the other jump lead to the solenoid body.<br /><br />If it clicks but starter motor does not engage then its a bad starter or the contacts on the battery, or inside the solenoid are bad. Touch the positive jumper lead to the large terminal on the starter motor, if no go then the motor is bad. If it starts, then work your way back to the battery checking all contacts or jumper them with your jump lead. It should be fairly easy to determine if its a bad connection or the solenoid at that point.<br /><br />If it clicks and starts the motor then the ignition key switch or wiring is at fault.<br /><br />You should be able to do the above on your own without an assistant.<br /><br />Hope this helps.<br />Peter

 

[naughtybynature]

Re: paging jb, need your help (quit laughing guys)

you guys are right on the money. heres what i am going to do... i will run the old bag on the driveway tomorrow (much to the disgust of my neighbours) and get it to not start. then i will perform all of the tests mentioned here and get to the bottom of it. i still think it has something to do with my hack soldering job inside the starter motor. i have just been too busy having fun this weekend to really get at the problem. you have all been helpful and your advice is very good as you areall going in the same direction as me. i know all the tests because they lead me to the bad brush wire before. thanks again.