Paint question on motor and cowl

[boater1234]

Well fellows i have run into a small problem i would like some opinions on painting my small merc.I have gathered most of the info on here from a group of smart people and i thank you guys for that.For the past few mths it just has been to down right cold to paint and i don't want to even think about taking the chance of ruining any of the work i have done already.In other words putting paint on and sanding it off again for a third time.

Here is what i have gathered from all the good people here especially jim123 as he seems like he is a smart man when it comes to painting.

I put some paint on it already just to be dissapointed at how crappy it really is.So what i did was just sanded all the way down to the metal from the cavitation plate down and from the cav up i just sanded it down to almost the primer with 1000 grit sandpaper as from the cav plate up was in fairly good shape and looked 100% better then the bottom.I want to take as many of the mistakes out as i could,[mostly sags or runs].Just before i'm ready to paint i will go over the whole thing with 50/50 water and alcohol or vinegar.I have been reading through a ton of articles since all i have is time before it warms up enough to paint.I have gathered after the wash down of the 50/50 cleaner to tack rag the whole thing,now here is where i get a little confused as i have read alot and i am 50/50 on this.Put the zc or self etching on really thin.What i want to know is can i put on a few[like 3 or 4] light coats were it will be somewhat thick and then sand it down then paint it as i want to take out as many imperfections as possible.

My problem is i have heard that you really need to top coat after the primer is on in a hr or so or the primer will be no good for the paint to stick to.I have read several articles were it says you can actually go days without top coating it is this true?There is no directions on the moeller zc besides when applying the zc you must put coats on within a half an hr of eachother but as far as top coating it with paint it just says can be top coated after 30minutes of drying and thats it.What i want to do is put the coats on like it says so i can get build up somewhat of a thick skin of zc let it dry for a while or maybe even a day[within 24hrs] then sand it down to as smooth of a mirror finish as i can get and then go with the couple of coats of black.I have worked very hard on this motor sanding and i have screwed it up once already so i want to make sure this method will 100% work as i don't want to go for a third time.Will the zc be as affective for the paint to stick to if i just build up the coats let it dry and then finish sanding within 24hrs or so give or take?Then just finish the motor with 2 to 3 final light sprays.I know you can sand in between paint coats but i want to get the primer as nice as possible so i can avoid all that.Thanks for any info.

Well i figured while i have this up i may as well kill 2 birds with one stone.Can i paint the cowl using the same formula as the motor or is there a better way or better primer or paint to use to do that.Also i have been told that when i put the new decals on i have ordered from online on that windex is the best thing to use to get the decals in place,is this true?Will windex hurt the paint at all or does someone have a better trick they used that worked great without hurting the paint.I'm ordering from outboarddecals .com,they say the decals can be clear coated or just left alone as they will last close to 8yrs with no clear coat.Thanks again for any info.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

Is the motor indoors?

You can topcoat the moeller zc within an hour and only a light coating of it is needed over bare aluminum. Just enough to cover without runs

If you wait a day or so ....you will be okay. The zc is not an epoxy primer...... EP must be coated within 24 hrs. After your first coat of black you are just about home free. You can sand and re-coat over and over again.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

Mebbe I missed this one..but..

What primer and paint products are you using ?

YD.

PS. Yes I use windex for applying my decals. Position the decal just right..tape it in place on the top..lift it up..spritz the windex..peel off the backing.."roll" it down..spritz the covering..sqeegee as needed..wait till it dries up a bit..peel off backing.

 

[JimS123]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

There are 4 key elements to having a paintjob turn out ok:
1. preparation
2. preparation
3. preparation
4. proper paint application.

Here's a novel idea - go to a flea market and buy a $20 stuck old motor. Then buy a few cans of $2 a can spray paint from the dollar store. Sand the old junker down and paint it several times - no primer even needed. When you can successfully paint the motor without thin spots or runs you're ready for the real thing.

Once the motor is "prepared", i.e. sanded, it is ready to go and future sanding is not necessary if you follow the proper painting sequence, as outlined before. I think most of your problems have been from all the thick coats of paint and intermediate sandings. If the metal is sanded smooth with no blemishes in the first place, why would you want to sand it?
I guarantee that unless you have the painting technique down perfect, the clear coat you apply will ruin the "decal". Decals ned to be topcoated because they are not gasoline proof. BTW, the site you listed does not sell decals. Those are vinyl stickers, and they will probably last longer without paint on top of them, if the motor is used regularly in the heavy sun.

 

[boater1234]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

The motor is outdoors.I have no other option as of now.I have to wait for the most perfect day to do this and it will come.Also i'm using moeller zc primer with the factory phantom black.Well jim i don't know what kind of stickers they are but the place is called outboarddecals.com.But you say it's better that they are stickers right?Here is what it says.


Fits the 15hp Mercury Outboard Engine. *All decals are printed on the highest quality 3M vinyl and then laminated with a layer of 3M protective UV vinyl. This ensures long life and protection from the sun and salt water as well as gasoline and other chemicals. After these decals are installed they can be sprayed with automotive clear laquer for additional protection.

I know nothing about decals but to stick them.I will tell you what jim that is a really good idea i will go on craigslist and buy a cheap beat up outboard and do some practice painting.Also jim on the bare metal on the merc it is not all flat as when you get right down to the bare metal you can see all the imperfections in the paint as metal will never be perfect so there will always be some small imperfections.There is like tiny groves were i would try to sand and the paint would not come out but that was like all near the cavitation plate.

 

[JimS123]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

After these decals are installed they can be sprayed with automotive clear laquer for additional protection.

If you do that I guarantee you 100% that you will completely destroy the decals and the paint you just applied.

 

[boater1234]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

I'm not doubting you on that.Also jim i didn't write any of that it was straight from their website.Here is my thing also if the self etching primer works just as well or does it as the zc why not just go that route so it safer on me anyway spraying it.Also i'm just wondering how a dust coat of the zc works so good,does it like repel water or seal the metal and does the self e primer do exactly the same?So i have gathered as long as i make it through the first steps to the final coats of paint and there is bad sags,runs or some bad imperfections just let it dry for the cure time and wet sand then just recoat?

As far as tempature time when i'm gonna paint it will be between 70 and 75 degrees for like 6to 7 hrs of the day but at night is what i'm worried about as will the cool weather ruin my paint job?The paint can says 20 minutes to touch and an hr dry,but 24hrs to fully cure were it can be used.As long as i get the paint on within that 6 hrs i should be ok as the cooler weather shouldn't hurt it as it will be dry but not fully cured,is this correct.Also i will let it cure for longer then 24hrs to,more like 4 days to a week for me to feel good about it.See the bad thing here in fl as the weather warms the humity goes up and the bugs like to come back and play so i would like to try and find a good stretch of weather but it just hasn't happened yet.Like a nice week of 70 degree weather.But i must deal with what i have.

This is just a curious question i'm gonna ask to.I have read some people who have repainted their outboards here with like 5 to 7 coats of paint and it came out nice and is still holding up.Is there something to that?Also i got no feedback on the cowl if someone would help me on that also.

 

[5150abf]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

You absolutely have to use etching primer on any raw aluminum or the paint won't stick and you have wasted your time, I have heard of the water and vinegar to but wouldn't trust it as it doesn't leave a permanent coating like the primer, it actually eats into the aluminum creating a permenant bond.

It is only $5 a can and can be had at any auto parts store.

JimS123 has it right, it is all about prep, I painted my engine 2 years ago also stripping it, I had 25-30 hours getting ready to paint and maybe 1 1/2 hours actually painting.

Take your time, use thin coats, maybe 2 cover coats then a finnish coat waiting 15-20 minutes in between and use a really good light so you can see what you are doing aalso if you haven't painted for awhile maybe paint a bit of a trash can or whatever just ot get used to it again.

 

[levi_tsk]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

use a different primer for the cowl zc primer is for metal only do your best to get the base metal smooth before you paint and as soon as you primer and its tacky hit it with the top coat that primer you have has whats called a "no sand time" if you go outside this time frame you have to sand the paint BEFORE you topcoat and theres no way on this planet that youll get every little crevis nook and cranny and thats where your paint will fail the "no sand time" on that paint is 30 mins which is why they tell you not to wait over 30mins between coats without sanding be careful with that primer as its VERY nasty stuff try your best not to breath ANY of it you just need a light dusting of it
i wouldnt go over 3 coats of paint youll just be wasting paint
- some of it will flake no matter what and its gonna get scratched and unless you dont rinse you motor off everytime you go out or you keep your motor in the water i wouldnt sweat it so hard do a decent paint job and save the money for preventative maintenence or if your not into that take it to a body shop and let them do it

 

[boater1234]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

See one guy says self etching and the other says zc,i have both.I have duplicolors self etching and the zc but i keep hearing everyone say that zc is the worst stuff you can spray so i would think the se would be a better fit.Also i'm going to do the 50/50 water vinegar before i stick my primer thats the purpose in that so the actually primer has a better grip to hold onto.

So here is my final plan and i wll do my best-I have sanded most of it pretty good but i'm going to go over it with some 1000 grit one more time and then some 2000 grit to get it as smooth as possible as i have gone through all the sanding steps already.Except the really high smooth runs like the 1000 to 2000 grit finish.Ater all is sanded,clean with 50/50 alcohol and water and then the bare aluminum with the 50/50 water and vinegar,let it sit and dry for a bit.Spray a dust coat of the self etching,let sit for 20 min or so,then go with a first light coat of black,45min to an hr later later a nice coat to cover most of it better,wait for about an hr to tack up some,then go with a nice final decent coat hopefully without running it.It won'y bother me with a few really small runs it's just i really went to thick to fast last time i tried this.Let it cure for at least 4 to 7 days to make me happy even know it says full cure time is only 24hrs.

The motor is never left in the water and i always wash her down at the end of the day,the motor can't be any newer looking not a drop of corrosion on her.Looks like it just came out of the box.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

boater..there is no reason to sand with 2k grit unless you plan on buffing it..

Bare alum spots should be free of corrotion..then Alumiprep and alodine..

Zinc chromate over the alodine..then the primer over that ( Alodine will chemically convert the metal to accept/bond your primer ).

Do not use wet/dry paper to sand your primer..

Merc has a good primer/topcoat system after you apply the alodine..

YD.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

I'd skip the self-etching primers. I've painted aluminum with them, including outdrives, and they're not so good. My experience is limited to the SEM brand, however.

Zinc Chromate primer is the standard for painting aluminum, and has been for years. The original paint job on your motor probably used zinc chromate. It usually looks like a yellowish green undercoat when stripped or sanded off.

The alodine etch and coat process is complementary to Zinc Chromate in most cases, not sure if there's a point to using both.

There are some modern epoxy primers for aluminum that contain either ZC or Strontium Chromate, the approved replacement for ZC (ZC is rather toxic, hence it's falling out of use).

Here's the critical thing: Check with the manufacturer of the topcoat you're using and see what they recommend. Paint is all about chemistry.. you want to use an undercoat or primer that's not only compatible chemistry, but ideal for the topcoat. General advice is fine, but call the manufacturer and find out what they recommend for the best results.

Erik

 

[boater1234]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

It's ok i have went down to my local marina that i have bought all my stuff there for yrs.They were the ones who told me to do what i'm going to do as they have painted plenty of outboards with the zc primer.The way people are talking about it makes me nervous,as far as toxic.I probally won't paint alot so i'm not going out to buy a crazy expensive resperator.If there is a $20 to $30 one that can be reused then i may go that route.

I'm not going to get all this alumaprep and all the stuff that is listed as i see it may be the very best way but most of the peoples threads i have read here are just doing the same thing.Degreasing,sanding,cleaning the bare metal with some type of solution like water and vinegar then just zc on it and top coat.They seem to be having great success with that formula.I don't understand why you would put the zc and then more sandable primer on top of that wouldn't that defeat the purpose of putting 2 primers on or could you do that?Wouldn't the zc be enough?As long as i can get some good yrs out of it i will be happy.The guy who runs the marina down here in hudson fl has painted over 100 outboards so i just found out and he said the moeller zc is the best compatable with the phantom black spray paint as long as you take your time.He also told me that you can put multiple layers on until you feel it's good to you and it will not peel back but i wouldn't waste anymore paint then you have to.I also found a guy here in an autozone who paints outboards on the side just recently and told me to stick to the one coat of zc and top coat of course with all the prep i have already done.So now i just am waiting for a good stretch of weather.It's suppose to warm up here soon but with rain i can't win.

 

[boater1234]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

You know i have a i think ok question here i would like to ask.If an aluminum boat will hold up in saltwater with peeling paint won't a outboard motor if saltwater gets to the aluminum?Does an outboard have better aluminum on it then an aluminum boat or are they basically the same?Maybe i'm just stressing about this whole paint thing a little to much as i want to protect the outboard more then trying to get a perfect look from the motor.Now don't get me wrong i will do the very best job i can on it but the main goal is to do the paint job right so it protects it good.I know it will get scratched up no matter what i do and it won't last forever.Sometimes i get a little more worked up over a simple job then i should.I feel i have the knowledge to do it just not the full skill but it will come soon i hope.I just don't want any nasty sags or blisters or any orange peel affects to see.I can live with some minor very small sags as there was some on the original factory paint and it was not the best paint job from the factory.I'm just a very anal person and like to do things as good as possible to the extreme.We have some warm weather coming up here soon with rain but it is a slight chance so i hope i can get her done as i'm so ready to go fishing for the last 2yrs now off a boat.I need to build a nice wooden paint work shop so i could install some good ac units with heat to if i need to.I just ordered the decals monday so they should be here today or tomorrow and can't wait.I will just peel and stick away as i think a clear coat will be a waste anyway.

 

[boater1234]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

Also what is the very best light to use for seeing what is going on and shows all the imperfections as i'm sanding away?

 

[5150abf]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

The sand paper you are using is for a finished paint job like for getting out runs, you want to use a 400 before paint, you are trying to create something fro the paint to grip, 2000 is WAY to fine.

Sorry about the primer mix up, etching is only for bare aluminum, use regular primer on the hood.

You have it down just do it now

 

[boater1234]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

Yea i think i'm ready for battle.Here is what i'm gonna do.Sand the metal down as good as i can get it tomorrow.
clean the whole area were i'm gonna paint with 50/50 acohol and water.
clean the bare metal with 50/50 water and vinegar.
use tack rag one time on it.
shoot it with a nice dust coat of zc primer.
go over the zc primer within 10 to 20min with black sandable primer as it is the smoothest primer that goes on.
Let that dry for 15min then shoot one light coat of black.
then wait 30 to 45 min and shoot number 2 medium coat.
Finally a nice wet final coat within an hr of the last coat and done with it.

Finally enjoy it.I know there will be some flaws but it will never come out perfect especially doing it outside.Thanks for all the help guys and i will take some before and after pics.

As far as the cowl i will use this clear coat paint primer i got and then a good coat of sandable primer then a few top coats and done with that.Put new decals on.No clear coat.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

I dont think the tack rag is needed..but if you do then be very careful with it. ( a dampened microfiber towel works well IMO ).

Not to start something out of nothing..but why not Clear your Cowl ?

YD.

 

[boater1234]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

Well i guess i could but the phantom black paint from mercury has a high gloss in it already so do you really think i need to?I mean i could i guess as i'm not going to clear over the decals as the decal puts a awesome protetive film over the decals that usually lasts for 8 to ? yrs as long as you keep them clean.They are gas,weather and oil resistant.So i may just do that[clear coat the cowl].I really don't even know how long i will have this motor as when i get it up and running again sometime as the weather is just not letting me as it is freezing in fla right now and if it's not cold it's warm but raining i can't win.The one thing i know for sure is i can get a but load of money for her as i have been offered $1500 or more tons of times for it.This is why i need to make the paint job decent.

The motor is brand new with actually no hrs on it and was used as a demo at a marina,the motor was fired up only 4 times in it's life for a total of like 20minutes.The guy never had the prop on it and when his guys were moving it around they nicked it a few times and poped some paint off that is what got me started on this.What i should have done was just fix the few spots and that would be that but when i started i couldn't stop sanding and figured i could do this for a project to make it better.Well what a mistake this was.But i will fix her up like new no matter how many hours i have to work on her.You can't find a brand new 15hp 2stroke merc anywere as i have looked for yrs that is why i got this one.When i first got it i put it on craigslist to sell then thought about it for a bit and decided to keep her and i got like no b.s 100 calls on it in 4 days.The price was $2000obo and people didn't give a crap they just wanted the motor.Here is the before pic so you can see nice she was.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Paint question on motor and cowl

I would top clear with the Merc clear..

What is the current condition of the motor ? pics ?

Man.. I dont see why you would ask how to recoat/graphic this unit as it looked in primo condition for buy and sell..

I dont think you can get much nicer then what you have in your pics ...

mebbe just me..

YD.