Painting on top of gelcoat

dabble73

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Jan 15, 2004
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Hey getting ready to paint a 76GlastronCV. I check with the guys at NAPA Auto Center and they recommended a paint called Crossfire. The paint guy I talked to said I could use this paint because it had flexibility in it and since I am trailoring the boat and not leaving it in the water for more than a week or two max that this would work for me. Just want to see if anybody had any ideas of a good prep (primer) for the gelcoat before I paint. Thanks for any help you might have.
 

LubeDude

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Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

Ive never heard of Crossfire, Ask if it is a urethane! You do not want a paint that isnt a catylized urethane! Imron (by dupont ) Is the paint of choice for boats! It is not recomended by Dupont for below waterline applications and they will not guarentee it for that application! But it is used by many with good results on trailered boats! Regular automotive urethanes will work also but Imron is best!<br /><br />As for primer, use any urethane catylized primer! (DO NOT USE A LAQUER TYPE PRIMER)! Spray the primer over a finish of 150-180, then do not sand the primer for the final finish any finer than 320! What you are looking for is a good bite! Apply three full wet coats!<br /><br />Welcome, and keep posting!!
 

dabble73

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Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

I went looking for Imron. Do you know of a distributor? That I can buy from. Thanks for the great information. I got frustrated looking for a top and bottom paint that would match #1, that I didn't have to repaint or have to keep in or not keep out of the water because the paint would break down. Just decided on the urethane for top and bottom coats. Do you recommend a clear coat on top?
 

LubeDude

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Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

I dont know how big of a town you live in, but look in the yellow pages under autobody supplies, (Dupont)! You may have to go to a larger town!<br /><br />If you are going to use a metalic color, I would clearcoat it, If not then single stage will be fine!
 

ThomWV

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Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

You can buy Imron at just about any automotive paint supplier in the country. That's because its a car paint. It gets used fairly often on boats, but that is certainly not what it was made for. If its a real marine paint you are looking for get Awl Grip. Their primer to use is their 545 primer, in gray or white. This paint simply can not be beat for luster and reflection and of course you never buff it or rub it out, never wax it either. Get ready for some serious sticker shock if you plan to paint the boat with it though. Oh, and home spraying is pretty much out, this is some serious stuff with some serious environmental and health consideratons when used. The up side is that you can roll and tip the stuff and get a finish that is almost indistinguishable from sprayed (you can do the same thing with Imron by the way) and in any case devoid of orangpeel. Performance Yachts in Annapolis, Maryland is where I have been buying it, just placed an order this morning to tell you the truth.<br /><br />If you want to see what can be done with this stuff go take a look at this site, notice the picture the guy takes of himself in the reflection from the side of his hull, like he was standing in front of a mirror, and done with a roller:<br /><br /> Painting The Hull <br /><br />Thom
 

LubeDude

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Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

Yes Tom you are correct about the environmental issues! Imrom actually should only be applied with a fresh air suit for maximum protection! As any catylized product! It is also amazing how good of a job can be done with a brush and roller! Be sure to use quality peices though, the most expensive and shortest nap roller you can by!
 

ThomWV

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Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

Yeah, you really can. Don't get me wrong on the Imron, its as good a paint as you will find anywhere and it has the added advantage of you getting an almost infinite color selection. Its really great stuff.<br /><br />Thom
 

LubeDude

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Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

It is good stuff!<br /><br />It is expensive!<br /><br />It will last a long time!<br /><br />It Will make you sick!<br /><br />Should be sprayed in a paint booth and you need to use fresh air reporators while painting!
 

Hooty

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Oct 2, 2001
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4,496
Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

Imron is not recommend for use below the waterline.<br /><br />c/6<br />Hooty
 

dabble73

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Jan 15, 2004
Messages
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Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

Thanks for all the great info. But here is the kicker that I keep running into in my research. I trailer my boat, in a day and out a day mostly. But for two weeks out of the season it stays in the water. Will Awlgrip handle that below the water line. My whole problem is trying to skip the antifouling paints because I can't get a good paint match for the top and bottom nor can I get the paint color I want. Thanks guys for all your help.
 

ThomWV

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Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

OK, time to let out the big secret.<br /><br />First off, no, the Awl Grip top coat paint is not suitable for use below the waterline. <br /><br />Now here is the basic problem a lot of us face. Over time everyone runs aground a time or two, and pulling up a little to far at the ramp crunches the keel line. Then there are the couple of times the boat has blown around just when you were getting ready to slide it up on the trailer and got a scratch or two on the bottom. Also, you put in a thru hull you change it, you try a couple of different thru-hull transducers, and all these little glass repairs you did on the bottom start to add up. So what do you do with a trailered boat that has a crappy looking bottom? You don't want to plaster on any of that sludge they call bottom paint and you sure as hell aren't going to regelcoat it. Dark blue or black is not what you had in mind for the bottom anyway. So, what to do?<br /><br />Here is the answer, and its not a legitimate answer in that the company is NEVER going to tell you that their product can be used tis way. I did, however call the company and tell them I was going to do this and asked point blank if it would peel off or scrub off from the trailer. I was told quite officially that this was not the intended use of the product ....... and then they guy said something to this effect. Yep, we know of quite a few guys who are using this as a non-antifouling bottom paint just to improve the bottom after doing work. We have been told that it does in fact hold up to trailer use and that it can stand the boat being in the water for at least up to a couple of weeks at a time. But we never told you that because officially that's not what it is for.<br /><br />The stuff is called a primer in their catalog and it clearly notes that it is desgined for use below the water line. It comes in two colors only, WHITE and black. Now this is not a shiney white, it is, after all a primer, but it can be rolled and tipped to give a finish at least as smooth and reflective as a dull gel coat but with a bright white color. Its not particularly cheap at about $100 per gallon kit (1 gallon paint and a quart of hardner) but that's enough to do about 3 boats in the 20~25 foot range with 3 coats of paint each. Oh, and the other nice thing about the stuff is that you can recoat it right after its tacky, which means that you could put on 3 coats in a day if you were lucky and be back in the water the next day.<br /><br />Thom
 

Bondo

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Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

I think LubeDude is Right on the Money....<br />For dabble73's Requirements......<br />Trailer Boat...<br />Less than a month in the water...<br />Gotta Look Good..!!!<br /><br /> "catylized urethane!" <br />That's the Ticket......<br />I use NAPA branded MSU.... about $100. a gallon....<br />Any color you Want.... Durable.. Shines.. Easy to spray.. <br />At less than a month in the water, there's No need for any Other Paints......<br />Put it on the trailer,+ Wash It.....<br /><br />It's the Preperation , Before the paint starts to fly, That determines the Final Product.....<br /><br />ThomWV,<br />So, Who, What, IS your Answer ?????????
 

LubeDude

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Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

TomWV:<br /><br />Are you trying to tell me that you can put 3 full coats of this stuff on a 20-23' boat bottom with one Gallon???? Come on, there is no way in H**l!!<br /><br />Not the most tactfull reply Ive every made!
 

ThomWV

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Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

Ooops, sorry about that.<br /><br />Its Awl Grip's Hull Guard, WB. Sold in a 1 gallon kit under their part number D8024. Remember, this is NOT a bottom paint, in fact its about as far removed from bottom paint as you could find. It is a water barrier primer, designed primarily to stop blistering. What I'm saying is that it can be used for cosmetic fixes, but it has the additional feature of being suitable for below the water line use, and neither Imron or any of the other top coat paints can say that. It doesn't have the glossy shine but it looks great on a trailered boat, one hell of a lot better than a scared up bottom with mismatched gel coat from numerous repairs. That's my point about the stuff. Its not expensive, it goes a long way, and anyone can put it on with a roller on a clean, and preferabley lightly sanded (80 grit in a random orbit sander and you can prepare the bottom on a mid- to low-twenty something boat in about an hour) hull.<br /><br />I've got a gallon+ of it here right now waiting for the weather to get a lot hotter.<br />
hullguard.jpg
<br /><br />I like pictures.<br /><br />Thom
 

dabble73

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Jan 15, 2004
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Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

Thanks again for the great info guys. I found a marine repair shop just about ten minutes from me. I really hammered the paint guy for about 10 minutes about their processes. He uses Imron but also said he does not recommend it to be in the water for more than a few days. His price with the all the fiberglass prepped would still be $1800 to spray Imron which he said it cost him about $100 a quart with the catalyst. His suggestion was Easypoxy and doing it myself because even the labor on his end was out of my price range. I am a DIYer but don't have the proper equipment to spray Imron nor the experience to spray. Well I like the idea of the Awlgrip black for the bottom up to the water line and then a bright read for the top which I guess I could use the Awlgrip for that and I think I could get away with roll and tip myself. Well if anybody has used Easypoxy or already has the Awlgrip on their boat let me know how it went. Again thanks for all your great information guys. <br /><br />Just for kicks this is the message I got back from Awlgrip about my painting situation:<br /><br /> Thank you for your kind comments regarding our website. Unfortunately, we (like many others) do not have a product for the bottom of trailered boats. <br /><br />Basically paint which works well in water does poorly in the air and vice versa. The below the waterline product we carry is an ablative anti-fouling, which is intended to wear away as the boat is in the water. When you pull the boat on the trailer, you essentially will be causing the coating to rub off on the trailer pads leaving less anti-fouling on the boat.<br /><br />If the boat is truly on the trailer all the time our Awlgrip topcoat could do fine on the bottom. However, if the boat is regularly left in the water, such as all weekend, every weekend during the boating season or for 2-4 weeks on an extended vacation, as you state yours will, there will be a tendency of the coating to blister and eventually peel. <br /><br />Also trailers with carpeted pads are sometimes a problem as the carpet is soaked in water and traps water against the finish, resulting in blisters where the boat sits on the carpet. This is not always a problem, it depends on the climate and how fast the carpet dries.<br /><br />If the trailer has rollers, sometimes the Awlgrip cracks as the coating is not designed to bear the weight of the boat.<br /><br />Regardless of how the boat is used there would be no warranty of any kind for topside finishes used below waterline. <br /><br />We're sorry that we cannot help you with your request at this present time.<br /><br /> <br />-----Original Message-----<br />From: nothing [mailto:dabble73@excite.com]<br />Sent: dinsdag 20 januari 2004 18:23<br />To: Tinne.VanElst@awlgrip.com<br />Subject: <br /><br />Hello, great web site, very informative. This is my dilema. I live in Columbus Ohio - U.S. I have a 1976 fiberglass boat with gelcoat on it and I am looking to paint it. I trailer the boat for the most part of the season so I don't wish to use and antifouling paint. But I do leave the boat in the water for a week or two each summer. So most topside paints I have found say not to leave in for more than 48hrs. I have been unable to get a match between a bottom coat paint and a top coat paint. The company who comes up with a paint that can be mixed to about any color and that can be used as a topside and bottomside glossy paint that does not break down and that can be rolled and than tipped with a brush will become a very rich company. What suggestions do you have for me. I am very interested in trying the Awlgrip but it has to meet my specific needs. Thanks for any help you can provide.<br /> <br /><br />Beth Behrhorst <br />Awlgrip North America <br />2270 Morris Ave <br />Union, NJ 07083 <br />USA <br />beth.behrhorst@awlgrip.com
 

dabble73

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Jan 15, 2004
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Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

I have also read about Imron being rolled and tipped? Any ideas how this might work....
 
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Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

Dabble73...I completely restored a 1963 Crestliner Del Rio. By the time I replaced the deck, bulkheads, stringers, vinyl, etc., etc.,and completely rebored and rebuilt the 1963 Speedifour 75 HP engine,(with a GREAT amount of help from Joe Reeves, THANKS Joe!),
index.html
I did'nt have the money left to paint the boat with Imron as I had initially planed. I studied and asked around about the Easypoxy and it seemed to be a good product. It's basically a polyurethane but doesn't peel like the clear poly does when exposed to weather and sun. It cleans up well with dish soap and will take a scrubbing with comet for tougher stains. I also painted the deck with non skid added and it is holding up well. Laquer thinner and acetone, (as well as some wine and beer!), have been been spilled on the Easypoxy without any damage. <br />The down side is, it is not as fogiving as Imron or Awlgrip in that it tacks up quicker and as a result might leave a less smoother finish. The first coat set so quick, even when thinned by about 10%, that I had to resand the whole boat and repaint. I thinned the second coat by about 15-20% and painted smaller area so I could tip them out as I went along. After trying different rollers, I found what worked best for me was a foam roller and SOFT bristled brush to tip it with. Of course, you don't want to paint in the direct sun or in high humidity.<br />I had a few dings in the hull below the water line and I touched up the gelcoat with the white Easypoxy. However, my boat doesn't stay in the water for more than a few days at a time so I can't give you an answer as to how it will hold up for extended periods.<br />Although it's not much cheaper, you could use Gelcoat to paint the hull, above and below the water line.<br />Good luck...
 

Capt. Stabbin

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
36
Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

Look for a product called VC botttom w/ teflon<br />they sell it at Boater's World. It's made specifically for trailered boats and cost about $40.00 for a 1 gallon kit. Comes in white only.
 

kd6nem

Chief Petty Officer
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Jul 25, 2003
Messages
576
Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

Urethane is commonly used of aircraft because of the wonderful gloss, but is not allowed to be repainted on fabric covered aircraft, unlike certain other paints. Is there any difficulty repainting boats several years down the road? Does it have to be totally stripped off?
 

LubeDude

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Re: Painting on top of gelcoat

No, you will not have to strip it off! You may not have to repait seveal years down the road, as it generaly will outlast the boat! (If not scared up)!
 
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