Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

[racinrc14]

Ok,

If you haven't been following the old thread, here's the condensed version:

-Bought my first boat off Ebay and picked it up on Halloween (I know).
-Brought her home and put her on the local lake and ran around for about 15-20 minutes, and could not get it on plane, or over 2100 rpm.
-Brought it home, checked a few things, ran it on the muffs, etc.. checked the oil and..............chocolate milk.
-Had it winterized and was going to store it until spring when I could work on it and boat shop says it has a rod knocking.
-Did some research, pricing, etc. and it will cost me around $1300 to rebuild the motor that's in it, and between 500-750 to put a junkyard motor in it (swapping all the marine stuff from mine onto the junkyard motor). I understand the minor differences that make a marine engine different from auto, like cam, freeze plugs, carbs, etc.

I bought the boat (1977 Glastron SS-V 189, merc 888 open bow) for $724. It will need minor work on the hull (bow eye, replace the center floorboard, a gage here and there) and am estimating generously around $500 to fix these issues. So $1224 for the boat, plus $500 to $1300 to get the motor situation going. High side estimate for what I'll have in it, $2524, plus whatever Murphy might throw at me.

-So my question is this, do I part it out now, and try to make back my original $724 and try to find another, or fix this one? I like the boat, but I don't want to do something like repair a boat only to have folks ask me "Why didn't you just get out of it while you were still not too deep?"

 

[ziggy]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

replace the center floorboard,

that would worry me a bit if yer talking about the deck. if it's soft. good chance that the stringers may be rotted too. could be the transom too..... i think if the boats good. ya can ebay it back together. if the boats bad + the mechanicals... it's gonna cost ya the price of something else + a bunch of work and time.

my similar predicament ended in gettin a different boat.... not perfect, but at least i ended up with something that was usable while i try to keep it afloat... inadvertently, my new used boat came with the same engine and drive as the boat in the backyard. so far, only thing i've done to the boat in backyard is to scavege from it....

 

[turborich]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

Too bad you don't live near me. I have a good mercruiser 302 just collecting dust in my garage.

Just remember that pieces & parts add up very quickly. If you really like the boat then I would try to fix it the cheapest way, wrecking yard engine or find a wrecked truck with a good 302. If it's all OK at this point then either you can keep it or sell it. As it sits now it's not really worth much.

Can you do the repairs yourself? If so then you can save a bunch of money. Do you have any pics of the boat?

 

[racinrc14]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

Regarding the floorboard: There are two removable center floor boards. One forward, under the open bow, that is used for ski storage. The one aft, approx. 5ft long and 2 1/2ft wide, that covers the poly fuel tank. I have removed this board to find that it has been replaced at some point with traditional OSB, and re-carpeted. It is rotten, of course. While I had it out though, I test drilled a few spots in the strings and found them to be solid all the way back to the transom. The transom also appears to be solid. The floor around the removable panel appears to be original, marine ply in good condition, except for where the screws for the panel went in. I may need to scab a perimeter patch around the panel cutout so I have fresh material to screw the panel into. But other than that, she appears solid. Hard to get to the motor mount area to check if it's solid, so I'll check when the engine is out (it has to come out no matter what I decide anyway).

I am capable of doing all the repairs myself (with the help of my wife, who is as frustrated as I am). Rebuilding the motor is within my skills also, minus the machine work, even though I am a machinist. I don't have access to the necessary machines to do the boring, align honing, etc..

It's dark when I get home from work, but I'll try to get picks of her this evening and post them here.

Thanks, please keep the suggestions coming...
Bond-o, any suggestions?

 

[racinrc14]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

Too bad you don't live near me. I have a good mercruiser 302 just collecting dust in my garage.

So, I wonder what a one-way ticket to Vegas costs these days......

 

[racinrc14]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

my similar predicament ended in gettin a different boat.... not perfect, but at least i ended up with something that was usable while i try to keep it afloat... inadvertently, my new used boat came with the same engine and drive as the boat in the backyard.

If I could be so lucky. It was looking for the boat I eventually bought for two months.....I love older 70's Glastrons, probably because we had one when I was a kid and learned to ski behind one. Fond memories of that boat, I wish my dad was around to see this one..

 

[mkast]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

Try this on for size

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Part...id=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65:2|39:1|240:1318

 

[racinrc14]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

Too bad I have no room for the 351. Aren't they like 2" or so wider than the 302? My doghouse barely fits over the 302 now. Does the 351 spin the same direction as the 302? What about firing order, is it the same for both? I noticed someone ground off the firing order sequence on my 302's intake, but the order appears to be correct looking at the distributor (I love it that Ford put the dist. on the fron of the motor, makes it easy to check/adjust timing, etc..) I'll have pics of her tomorrow.

 

[turborich]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

I believe that if it's a windsor then the blocks are nearly the same size. The 302 used two different firing orders (standard & High Output) I am not sure about the 351 though.

I think that I would just find a good running engine that you can hear for yourself. The question about the rotation is a good one that you will have to find out about.

 

[chiefalen]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

Whats to say, i feel your pain.

Whats your gut tells you to do?

Your in love with the hull. i understand that, i love the Citation i have.

The way she rides, and the way she sits in the water, when were fishing in the bay.

You feel the same about your boat keep it and fix it.

If you don't sell it and get another one.

 

[mthieme]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

What make/model/year is this thing?

 

[chiefalen]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

Look at the first post. He told us what it is.

 

[mthieme]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

Thanks.
Don't know how I missed that...read it twice looking for it.

Personally I like Glastrons. I would put the money in it.

 

[mkast]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

Too bad I have no room for the 351. Aren't they like 2" or so wider than the 302? My doghouse barely fits over the 302 now. Does the 351 spin the same direction as the 302? What about firing order, is it the same for both? I noticed someone ground off the firing order sequence on my 302's intake, but the order appears to be correct looking at the distributor (I love it that Ford put the dist. on the fron of the motor, makes it easy to check/adjust timing, etc..) I'll have pics of her tomorrow.

The 351 is taller.
If a 302 fits, a 351 will.
Same direction.
Your 302 uses a 351 cam, that's why the firing order was ground off.

 

[mthieme]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

...oops - I meant part it out.
DIBS !!!

 

[bigbroncoxlt]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

The 351 is taller.
If a 302 fits, a 351 will.
Same direction.
Your 302 uses a 351 cam, that's why the firing order was ground off.

351W is wider also, About 2" wider. the exhaust from a 302 will not work on a 351. this is true for automotive. Maybe marine exhaust is capable of adapting?

 

[racinrc14]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

I remember reading somewhere that the Merc. 302's used 351 heads. Any truth to this, and if so, then the exhaust won't be an issue.

Chiefalan you are correct, sir. I'm in love with the hull, and I am going to put the money in her to get her back on the water.

 

[reelfishin]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

302 vs 351, the 351 is about 3/4" taller, and about 1 5/8" wider in it's automotive trim. The heads are the same with the exception of head bolt diameter. The head are interchangeable after 1977. Early 351 motors used their own intake bolt pattern. All 351W motors use a wider intake manifold, and there are two bolt patterns, before and after 1977.
The main differences are that the 351W has a taller bore and stroke, larger diameter crank main bearings, and generally due to the longer stroke, more torque. The 351W has never been known as being great on fuel compared to the 302 in the automotive world, and I am sure the same is true in the marine world.
Since the cylinder heads are the same, (after 1977), the exhaust manifold bolt pattern is the same, thus they use the same manifolds, providing that they can mount at the higher and wider location. This is normally not a problem on vehicles with cast iron manifolds or marine manifolds since the exhaust exit point can easily be adapted. My only direct experience with a 302 to 351W conversion was on an early O/I drive equipped Renken, on that I ran the exhaust directly out the back of the boat above the water line, un-muffled in anyway. I'm not sure I'd do the same today, but back then it was the affordable way to go and it added some power and response to the otherwise stock motor.

As far as whether or not to fix it, I am also partial to Glastron boats as well as to Ford engines, if it is indeed only a bad motor, then myself, I'd be most likely to re-power it myself with a new motor of which I have no shortage of here in the Ford variety.

Be sure to also check over the drive and look at the common items there which tend to cause leaks, the bellows and shift cables as well are best and easiest to replace when the motor is out.

Once done, you should have a very enjoyable and reliable boat.

 

[mkast]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

I don't know what 351's you have used, the six or so I've installed had the same fuel consumption 302's had, except at WOT. EVERONE of the boat owners LOVED the upgrade.
Around here, boats are either in a no wake zone or at WOT, most of that time cruising the rivers in the no wake zone.
Again, if a 302 fits, a 351 will.
Exhaust manifolds swap.
Consider upgrade to center risers.
In the mid/late 70's, 302's were used in Glastrons and Hammond boats. The option engine was a 233 HP 351. Do you really think the manufacturer's went to great lengths to modify the hulls/engine cover for these two engines?
It was a simple bolt-in.
How far is that engine from you?
Go get a 351.
Do a quick conversion to marine.
Install it, go boating.

 

[racinrc14]

Re: Part it out or fix it? Merc. 888/302

Mkast, why the center risers? That would require re-routing the entire exhaust system, yes? Which equals more money, that I don't have a lot of just sitting around.

Regarding the firing order sequence on the intake manifold, they have been ground off. Not by the factory, mind you, but by someone with a grinder, and poorly done. I keep trying to get pics, but you can see where the original paint was removed and has surface rust where the grinder went through the paint. Why would someone do this? As before, the order looks correct at the distributor (according to my "manual on cd", which by the way, sucks).