particles in fuel water seperator

[dingbat]

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

fluctuating temps cause the "lung" effect where the contents of the tank expands and contracts, drawing in humid air from which the E10 draws moisture..

One problem with that theory...... The condensation and evaporation cycles are equlized. Any condensation "inhaled" is vaporated on "exhale".

Hard to argue against physics

 

[Fed]

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

Every condensation thread I've ever seen properly finalised has turned out to be rainwater leaking in.
I want your boat Dingbat, what is it?

 

[robeward]

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

Let's theorize a little more about where the trash came from. I got the water part. Can u get this stuff from a gas station?

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

I worked at a gas station as one of my jobs in college. every fuel station has a bit of water on the bottom of their tanks. some may have more. you could be pumping in the water and rust from the bulk tank.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

I worked at a gas station as one of my jobs in college. every fuel station has a bit of water on the bottom of their tanks. some may have more. you could be pumping in the water and rust from the bulk tank.

Every Modern gas pump has a fuel filter in the pump just before it goes out the hose.
Your fuel was filtered about two seconds before it was delivered.
When was the last time that they changed that filter is another question.

 

[robeward]

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

pumped 5 gallons from bottom of tank. no signs of water. there is definitely still some trash in tank. didn't have time to do the homemade polishing.

ran engine off of a spare tank with fresh clean gas and it still ran ragged. only way could keep it cranked was sit there an bump the throttle continuously. would not idle at all.

i have removed the carb and sending it to a guy to clean/inspect. hopefully jets are plugged. not sure how they got plugged but need to fix the problem i guess so i can better know what to do to preve

 

[dingbat]

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

Every condensation thread I've ever seen properly finalised has turned out to be rainwater leaking in.

My experience as well. I was hit twice in a 6 month period before I figured out the culprit.

My fill ports are recessed in an indentation on the gunwale. If I didn't back the boat into the parking space just right, the recess would fill with water when it rained and pass thru the vents built into the caps.

I called my boat's builder and confirmed they had seen the problem before. They recommended I purchase and install a spacer made mfg. of the fill to get the vents above the recess. That was 4 years ago and I've not had a "E-10 condensation" problem since. I know four other people that solved their condensation problem in the same manner.

My boat is a Grady White 226

 

[robeward]

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

My experience as well. I was hit twice in a 6 month period before I figured out the culprit.

My fill ports are recessed in an indentation on the gunwale. If I didn't back the boat into the parking space just right, the recess would fill with water and pass thru the vents built into the caps.

I called my boat's builder and confirmed they had seen the problem before. They recommended I purchase and install a spacer made mfg. of the fill to get the vents above the recess. That was 4 years ago and I've not had a "E-10 condensation" problem since. I know four other people that solved their condensation problem in the same manner.

My boat is a Grady White 226

understand. as an engineer things like this consume me because i have to figure it out, and it has to be believable. i won't accept just one of the possibilities. i will get it figured out. just want to make sure i have a safe dependable ride to the stream and back.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

I use a 6gal plastic fuel tank and this spring I found over a pint of water mixed in with about .5 gal of gas. After further inspection I found that the fitting going to the pickup tube was lose and was easily turned, Fuel cap was tight so this fitting is the only place I could reasonably assume is where the water intusion was coming from. Otherwise I'm at a complete loss as to where all the water came from.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

One problem with that theory...... The condensation and evaporation cycles are equlized. Any condensation "inhaled" is vaporated on "exhale".

Hard to argue against physics

no, it's not like a dry bladder expanding and contracting. It's a function of the humidity, not condensation, that is inhaled, and then the moisture (vapor) is grabbed by the ethanol and captures in the fuel, and what is exhaled is now drier. It's analogous to your own lungs inhaling air with O2 and exhaling air with CO2; you may have close to the same volume but you left something behind. So part of the stabilizer's function is to create a barrier on the surface (picture a sheen of oil or soap) to keep the air from contacting the E10 fuel.

As for condensation, regardless of E10, the more damp air in the tank, the more available to condense into water droplets on the interior surfaces during the night (which would not be exhaled) as well as more relative surface area of the tank's sides and ceiling to catch it. Once the water vapor in the air condenses to surface water drops, it won't un-condense back into vapor to be "exhaled."

Hard to argue against physics but easy to argue about it!

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

Let's theorize a little more about where the trash came from. I got the water part. Can u get this stuff from a gas station?

yes. despite filters and everything else, stuff gets in gas at the UGST or before and you get it. Likewise all the filters in your boat aren't going to catch it all.

You said you are still having issues--have you changed all filters since the recent big problem and do you have new lines?

Also, since clearly you got something in the motor, just running fresh won't always clear stuff that got through.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

Similar to Dingbat's leaky port issue, I solved a suspected E10 problem by replacing a vent on the side of the boat with a vented cap. not only had the old vent (sitting way too close to the water line due to low freeboard) degraded with salt-water and age and dock strikes, it did not have a proper "swan neck" installed inside.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

Home Cooking I have to agree with the humidity part. This winter we experienced, quick and deep changes in temp and relative humidity.
One day it would be -20 then warm to +20 with snow then back to the deep freeze. This lasted for a good 5 months. The storage garage was also unheated.

The tank I have in question was stored standing upright and not laying flat. Much more surface area to collect heat and cold along with humidity. Also the lose fitting to the pickup tube and poor oring may have been a big contributer to at least my problem.

Also after pulling the boat from the garage there was a fair amount of water draining from the tube and I know the boat was dry when it was put away,

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

at least you were below freezing so the air was less humid; we ranged from the 20's to the 60's (even hit 80)

 

[bonz_d]

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

at least you were below freezing so the air was less humid; we ranged from the 20's to the 60's (even hit 80)

Sure we also just missed setting a new winter snowfall total for the season

 

[dingbat]

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

People please educator yourself on this stuff. A lot of the info being thrown around is just regurgitated bunk with no basis in fact.

Humidity has nothing to do with e-10's ability to absorb water. In fact, air temperature doesn't even come into play. It's the temperature of the fuel that determines the moisture content. Any moisture trapped in e-10 would come from temperature "rinsing" which quite frankly is very unlikely in a tank of fuel. 20 gallons of fuel is not going to change temperature significantly overnight

 

[bonz_d]

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

So please explain how I picked up a pint of water in a 6 gal plastic can standing upright holding about .5gal of fuel that was to be used in a snowblower!

I can even forward a picture of the container with the gas and water still mixed if you like.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

A pint of water is 16 ounces.
A cubic meter of air at 100% humidity (Fog) holds 5 grams of water at a temperature of 0C/32F.
A cubic meter is ~35 cubic feet of air and an ounce of water is 29.5 grams of water.

Skipping all the conversion math.
You will need to extract all 100% of the water from a little over 3,300 cubic feet of 100% humid air to produce a pint of water. Or, to put it another way, you would need to run over 24,500 gallons of our perfect air through a 6 gallon tank to get a pint.

Assuming the humidity is a more reasonable 40%, Make it closer to 62,000 gallons of air.

That is a lot of breathing in a tank that is evaporating fuel vapors OUT the vent for the majority of the time.

Yes! E10 will absorb some water from the atmosphere, but nowhere near the amount it is accused of.
As stated, it is hard to argue with the physics.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

So once again that pint of water came from somewhere I just can't figure out where!

 

[bruceb58]

Re: particles in fuel water seperator

It leaked into your tank. That's the only explanation.