phase charging 3 batteries

[MASTER Brian]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

I checked an it is a Motorguide. I didn't pull the cover off because of rain, so I can't be 100% certain yet, but I am guessing it's the Brute 750. I am guessing that because of the features listed for the other models and that's the only one with the features I have.

As soon as I can, I'll get the diagrams up that the manual offers.

 

[--GQ--]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

8)

 

[--GQ--]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

This maybe a bit complicated.

 

[--GQ--]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

added: two amp meters in line with batt. one and two to monitor current flow.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

what is C-1, C-3, CB-1 and CB-2 in your drawing?

Also, T-2 and what are you biasing? Usually, the term biasing is for biasing a transistor or a FET.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

If this works, here is the diagram from my manual.

 

[--GQ--]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

C-1 ; C-3 = normally open contacts on relay C
CB-1 ; CB-2 = normally open contacts on relay CB
T-2 = normally open contacts on time clock " T " set at 3 minutes
12v and 24v bias correspond to the voltage to the motor.

Logic:
Start engine. Idle for three minutes (user setting) to warmup.
After 3 minutes, time clock relay closes. Energize relay "C" which closes all the contacts. Batt 1& 2 in charge mode. Red LED indicates batts. are charging. Press bypass switch will disengage charging if so desire.

Engine OFF. Key in position one, green LED indicates trolling mode. If operating in 12v, "G12" LED will be on also. Amp. meter on batt. 1 indicates current draws. "G24" LED indicates 24v mode. Both amp. meters reflect current draw from their respective batt.

Key out of the ignition, deactivates everything.

Of course this is rather complicates but it's just the beginning. More bell and whistles are needed to truly experience the benefit of "automation".

Brian, I suggest you use the first diagram. Check your e mail for the relay brand name suited for your app. I think I mentioned two.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

GQ, that helps make more sense of things, now I just need to be able to take some time and sit down and analyze it a bit more. I at least understand the logic side of it. It would also be a bit more helpful if I knew someone who was good with electronics.

Part of my confusion is how the top part of the diagram integrates with the bottom.

I'll also try to get the diagram from my troller up. I just need to upload the pick to the web, so I can post it.

I'll also look for that email and once again, thanks for being patient with me on this. Even though it's somewhat electrically above me, I am interested. You even have me curious as to what other bells and wistles you speak of....

blg@cox.net

 

[bruceb58]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

I have a feeling this is going to be way to complicated for poor Brian to follow.

What was you plan on how to implement a 3 minute timer?

 

[--GQ--]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

The timer is wired inline with relay "C". Even with the engine ON, relay "C" gets no juice until the timer timed out. The logic is "ON Delay". Delayed ON if you will.

The most common time clock I'm familiar with is the manual dial type. Now a day you get the option of digital. Then again, for the purpose of this app., it's over kill. Not to mention finding a water resistance timer.

All this stuff is pretty easy actually. Designing the circuitry is the hard part. Follow the Line Ladder Diagram from left to right, top to bottom. Any wire to the right of the last device in the line is white (ground)**. Any wire to the left can be any color. Usually black (positive).

Example: In line one, to the right of relay "C", is white. Between the ignition, the bypass and the time clock switch are black wires.

** = DC circuit

 

[bruceb58]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

GQ,

I am an electrical engineer and even I am having a problem following that top drawing.

First of all, you don't need to switch one of the grounds on the lower 12V battery. Second, I wouldn't use a timer but a couple combiners combined with a switch.

Brian, once you get your wiring diagram it will be easy to figure out the optimum way to do what you want to do.

 

[--GQ--]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

GQ,

I am an electrical engineer and even I am having a problem following that top drawing.

First of all, you don't need to switch one of the grounds on the lower 12V battery. Second, I wouldn't use a timer but a couple combiners combined with a switch.

Brian, once you get your wiring diagram it will be easy to figure out the optimum way to do what you want to do.

I agree, there are many ways to this app. I guess it's a matter of personal preference. The key here is to go back and retrace the circuit and make sure everything will function accordingly.

And welcome to the club.
EE USC, class of 97
PLC, Motor Control, Line Ladder Logic LBCC
Electrical Technology IBEW, NJATC

8)

 

[--GQ--]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

^^^ how I spend my youth beside chasing the cuties^^^ 8)

 

[bruceb58]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

GQ...you are cracking me up!

You have a EE at USC? A four year degree?

I have been a design engineer for 24 years and that is the first time I have seen a ladder diagram used for something like this(I thought it looked familiar). Why don't you just draw a normal schematic?

I know many USC grads. Who was your senior advisor?

You sound more like an electrician than a EE.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

Well, sorry for the absense, I just haven't been able to find the time to post. I'd still like to make this work...

Let's try the diagram once more of my troller. I think the main diagram will come out too small, but I have it much larger if anyone wants me to email it to them.

 

[MASTER Brian]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

Here is a blow up of the upper right corner of the top pic. Don't know if any of this means anything or not.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

Is there a diagram of the charge panel referenced on page 12?

Just a guess at this point but the single pole/single throw switch that selects 12V or 24V means that when you are in 12V mode, only one of the batteries is being used in 12V mode and this charge panel is connecting the positive of one battery to the negative of the other.

 

[tommays]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

STEP 10
IF FLAG1 'MAIN RUN BIT
THEN LOAD R1 'NUMBER OF BOTTELS TO INDEX
TO R2 'HOLDS BOTTEL COUNT DOWN HEAD 1
STEP 20
IF EYEONE 'HEAD ONE BOTTLE EYE
THEN SET HEAD1 'FILLING HEAD 1 OUTPUT
SET T1 'HEAD ONE FILL TIME
INC R5 'PRODUCTION
INC R8 'HEAD 1 AND 2 PRODUCTION PER MINUTE
STEP 30
IF N T1 'HEAD ONE FILL TIME
THEN RESET HEAD1 'FILLING HEAD 1 OUTPUT
STEP 40
IF N HEAD1 'FILLING HEAD 1 OUTPUT
THEN SET T3 'HEAD ONE DRIP DELAY
STEP 50
IF N T3 'HEAD ONE DRIP DELAY
THEN SET INDEX1 'HEAD ONE BOTTEL INDEX
STEP 60
IF N EYEONE 'HEAD ONE BOTTLE EYE
THEN NOP
STEP 70
IF EYEONE 'HEAD ONE BOTTLE EYE
THEN DEC R2 'HOLDS BOTTEL COUNT DOWN HEAD 1
STEP 80
IF R2 'HOLDS BOTTEL COUNT DOWN HEAD 1
= V0
THEN RESET INDEX1 'HEAD ONE BOTTEL INDEX
JMP TO 10
OTHRW JMP TO 60


You boys are out of control

tommays

 

[--GQ--]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

Prof. Bruce, are you doubting me? Check your PM. A few name you might recognize. Trojans rule.

 

[j_martin]

Re: phase charging 3 batteries

I couldn't help but jump in.8)

What if the stock 30 amp alternator could be wired to a black box that would supply 3 seperate isolated outputs to charge batteries at up to 40 amps each, or a total of 100 amps? No belts, alien cowls, extra alternators, just wires.

It wouldn't make any difference how the batteries were wired to each other. It would allow smaller, high rate (AGM) batteries to keep the troller going all day. Less weight, more top speed.

Don't laugh. It's theoretically possible, and I'm working on it.

The question is, how many would be interested in such a device for around $600?