PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

[dutch135]

problems today with my SeaRay, son had it out and stalled, would'nt restart. thought it was a battery or charging problem, charged battery and a couple hours later it started up. I ran it for about 2 or 3 mins, stayed close to home, and sure enough it quit again. i coasted back to the dock, waited a few mins, it restarted, but i took the cowl off. things felt warm, but not exceptionally hot. temp gage was normal. Ran for a minute then went back out under load and it quit again, but this time i had the cowl off and heard it get noisy before it did. After it quits, the starter won't turn the engine over, till it cools down. Sounds like she is setting up. Tomorrow I will pull plugs and look at pistons, but if my deepest fears are true, and I cooked a piston, what am I facing with to have it rebuilt? Is it worth doing? The boat is an 88 SeaRay Seville,, with that **** overheat problem on occasion when pulling skiers. (Alarm always goes off after a few seconds if I open the throttle up). Is a rebuild something any engine shop can do? or is it something I should leave for a marine mechanic? I probably can get the powerhead off myself, and take it somewhere. What is a reasonable expense for rebuild, if I bring the just the powerhead to a shop? <br />Looks like an early end to my boating season, as I am sure this won't be fixed by mid sept or october, and by then water is getting cold anyway. Thanks for any input, I am located in Upstate New York if anybody knows a reliable , reasonable mechanic.<br /><br />

 

[Beernutz]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

Sounds like a single cylinder seizure. Usually caused by a carburetor problem like a clogged main jet or damaged float (if someone has had them apart).<br /><br />When you pull the plugs, look for one that has a lighter colored insulator. That would indicate the lean condition, and direct you to the offending carb.<br /><br />I'd fix the carb, fire it up, and see what it sounds like. You may hear a little piston rattle, but I've seen 'em run for years like that. You've likely lost some compression in the damaged hole. When they seize, the piston's aluminum can get smeared over the rings, preventing them from sealing. If it runs OK, though, I'd just keep running it. That "smear" can wear off, restoring compression.<br /><br />Amazing how 2-strokes can heal themselves, sometimes.

 

[dutch135]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

I will pull plugs tonight and look at them. The motor wouldn't keep running when it gets hot, it siezes and quits. Then after it cools it seems to be able to turn over. I don't think I want to run it until i see what's up with the plugs, and peek in at the pistons. There has been no carb work done at all on this boat in years, except for fuel pump repairs. When you say it might be running lean, are you referring to air/fuel mixture or oil/gas? <br />

 

[Beernutz]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

Air/fuel mixture. Lean condition raises combustion chamber temperature significantly, causing the piston to expand and seize. After it cools, you can crank it again.<br /><br />If you've let it sit up for a few months, and the fuel evaporated out of the floatbowl, sediment can harden in the main jet orifice. That's the usual scenario.<br /><br />"Read" the plugs, and run a compression check while they're out.

 

[sag2]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

Sent you an email and a photo just now. Hope it helps. SAG2

 

[dutch135]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

Tonight I had a chance to do some quick compression tests. I did pull the plugs, and as I looked at them, I couldn't really find one or 2 that looked all that much differen than the others. I do seem to remember that at other times when I pulled them and looked at them they didn't look as dry as they did now, they always seemed to be a little wet, or oily. They all seemed the same color, 2 had some slight deposits on them, but none looked like they were running any different than the others. Here are the compression test results.. not hard to figure out where my problem is:<br />cyl #1 0<br />cyl #3 50<br />cyl #5 95<br />cyl #2 95<br />cyl #4 95<br />cyl #6 95<br /><br />I did the compression test quickly,, on a cold engine, but from what i see i don't think it mattered.<br /><br />Yes ,, the piston is still there,, and moves when the engine is cranked. What little I could look in the spark plug hole tonight to see, looked ok. But it sounds like I need to pull the head and see more. The big question is going to be was it a carb problem or temp problem. Is the fact that 2 cyls were damaged, next to each other.. mean a temp problem? I find it hard to believe that the carb went lean on 2 cyls, but maybe. Anyway, that's what I know tonight.<br />tomorrow is another day.

 

[orca]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

G'Day. May be a temp problem as the top 2 cylinders will get hottest first if you run short of water. The top two cylinders feed off the same carb, you may have a fuel shortage in thet carb. the other cylinders also seem a bit low but you can check that out when you remove the heads. Your compression guage may be reading low.

 

[dutch135]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

Actually the way the cylinders are lined up, the lowest one is the top right side, and the 2nd lower one is underneath it on the right side, which makes me think more heat problem than carb problem, but will need to pull the head to see more.

 

[Beernutz]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

If you decide to rebuild it, and don't figure out what caused it, you're wasting your time and money. It'll happen again.

 

[Reel Appeal]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

Hello,<br /> I have a '86 Mercury 175 that had the same symptoms.My problem was from LACK OF COOLING because the water pump went south....Replaced water pump and all is OK now....she pumping water!? Also,If your using OIL INJECTION,make sure it's working!!(check for blue smoke at idle).This could be the cause of your compression failure.BEERNUTZ OFFERS GOOD ADVICE ALSO

 

[Ryans Toy]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

Same problem with mine,caused by lack of h20.My cylinders are chrome on my 200 and its very pricy to fix,Hopefully yours are not chrome.

 

[dutch135]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

Now that it is looking like a major overhaul,,, what are my options for this block? can it be bored for performance while we are doing it anyway? Is this the same block used for the other HP engines.?? (150 or 175)

 

[NICK JONES]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

CHECK OUT THE OIL LUBE SYSTEM. IS THE ALARM WORKING OKAY ? THESE DO SMOKE WHEN AT IDLE EVEN IF THE OIL PUMP IS NOT ROTATING AS THERE IS ENOUGH PRESSURE IN THAT HEADER TANK TO SEND SOME OIL THROUGH, BUT A HIGHER REVS IT'S NOT ENOUGH OIL.

 

[dutch135]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

I'm back! <br />Finally got the boat towed to the launch, and brought her home on the trailer. Couldn't help myself, and pulled the right side head off, and looked at piston , head, and cylinder walls. I took some pictures,, but with our 35 mm camera and will have to develop after i burn up the rest of the film, but here is what i noticed. Top piston did have the splattering of aluminum on it. the cylinder walls also had a bunch of material on them, all the way around. the middle cylinder, (still on the right side) looked fine, with just a few specs of aluminum on it., but the cylinder wall looked fine,, again just a quick inspection. the bottom piston and cylinder looked ok in all respects. all 3 plugs, and head chambers looked the same, no major differences in colors on the spark plugs or heads. i couldn't find any discoloration around the block that indicated heat enough to burn paint. I surely will post the pics when i get them, but from what i describe does it give any more indication as to whether this is a fuel or cooling problem? remember,, that top cylinder has 0 compression, and the middle one had 50 lbs. while the other 4 had about 95-100. to answer one post,, i would'nt say by looking that the cylinder walls were chrome, didn't look that way to me. <br />Any thoughts guys???<br />and if i rebuild,, what about boring for performance? <br />

 

[dutch135]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

 

[Dhadley]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

It should have sleeves and can be bored as is. What year is it, or did I miss that?<br /><br />Good luck!

 

[dutch135]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

1988 Sea-Ray Seville , and I most likely a 1988 Mercury V-6 outboard.

 

[dutch135]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

PHOTOS FINALLY! but for some reason they won't show here,, so here is a link to my yahoo briefcase so you can look at them. <br /> http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/dutch...com/bc/dutch68/lst?&.dir=/Boat+Motor&.src=bc&. view=tsorry.<br />Ok guys,, here are the pictures of the cylinders and pistons. as you can see, the top one is the worst, and the middle on isn't perfect either. these are on the right side bank of cylinders. The engine still turned over, although quit when it got warmed up. I still haven't gotten my boat into storage, seems winter creeped up on us before we knew it. <br /><br />anyway,, that's what i have, any thoughts are greatly appreciated!<br /><br />thanks in advance

 

[bryanredfish]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

I can't see anything but red X's. I Look forward to seeing the photo's!

 

[dutch135]

Re: PHOTOS OF: siezing 135, mercury v-6, still turns over

ok,, i tried again with the pics,,,,, hope it works this time