photos of starter

[BigwayNZ]

here are the photos of my starter. As you can tell most of the time it will not catch on and start. if i move the flywheel to the bigger teeth on the flywheel it will start.

How come the starters teeth have become like this? also, what is the cause and do i just need new teeth for the starter?

thanks guys!

 

[bgbass.1]

Re: photos of starter

You need new starter gear also the flywheel teeth are causeing the problem so if you dont change the flywheel it will ruin the new starter gear

 

[BigwayNZ]

Re: photos of starter

How come the flywheel teeth are causing the problems? THey were not like that until the starter chewed them up so i thought.

Do i need a new starter motor or just the teeth for one?? There is a huge difference in price. Also why do i if that is the case?

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: photos of starter

get the bendix kit, gear spring, etc. it actually looks like you starter is loose, or was loose. if all the bolts are not tight, it will do that. also this will cause that problem.

90% of starter problems are bad connections. remove and clean both ends of the battery cables, so that they are shiney, also the cable from the solenoid to starter. check for nicks in the cables. and make sure the connectors are on the wire good. the cable tend to corrode from the inside out, if nicked, corroded wires, and connections, heat up and cause resistance to the follow of electricity, thus the starter doesn't get enough. you can also take jumper cable pos battery post to large post on starter. with a good connection, the engine should spin. then if the starter is good clean everything and retest. then trouble shoot solenoid. starters can be rebuit at a starter/alternator shop, much cheaper than a new one.

also have the battery load tested at the auto parts store, free, i've had new batteries go bad

 

[BigwayNZ]

Re: photos of starter

get the bendix kit, gear spring, etc. it actually looks like you starter is loose, or was loose. if all the bolts are not tight, it will do that. also this will cause that problem.

90% of starter problems are bad connections. remove and clean both ends of the battery cables, so that they are shiney, also the cable from the solenoid to starter. check for nicks in the cables. and make sure the connectors are on the wire good. the cable tend to corrode from the inside out, if nicked, corroded wires, and connections, heat up and cause resistance to the follow of electricity, thus the starter doesn't get enough. you can also take jumper cable pos battery post to large post on starter. with a good connection, the engine should spin. then if the starter is good clean everything and retest. then trouble shoot solenoid. starters can be rebuit at a starter/alternator shop, much cheaper than a new one.

also have the battery load tested at the auto parts store, free, i've had new batteries go bad

Battery is clean and perfect. It is getting enough power. each and every time. What it is doing is going up, spinning but some teeth on flywheel are a bit short so it just grinds it.

Why do you say it looke like my starter is loose or was? How can you tell from a still photo?

PLease let me know why i need a new starter as it is hard to justify spending the money cause you have said go and buy a whole new one. Why do i need a whole new one?
I know this sounds like a argument but it is not, just me trying to be quick with the reply.

Thanks mate

 

[F_R]

Re: photos of starter

I suspect he was basing that on the flattened teeth and experience that starters sometimes come loose. Did somebody say to replace the whole starter?? What I have read was advice to just replace the Bendix. AND the flywheel gear if it is a replaceable item, otherwise you will have to replace the whole flywheel. Those flattened teeth on the flywheel will ruin a new Bendix if you try to skimp.

 

[BigwayNZ]

Re: photos of starter

A bendix is $60. How long would it last? I mean i would be happy to ruin a few of them for the time being if it does not damage anything else.

The reason being is because i am having a hard time finding a flywheel and my mechanic says brand new would be around $1000 AUD.

The guy in this thread i asked a question of had said replace the whole starter. I thought i had read that anyway.


So i have a new bendix coming onn thursday. Surely this would do the trick for the rest of the summer?
You see, i at the end of summer i am spending $6000 on restoring my boat and then another $1500 on having seats built. That is really all i can afford for this season considering i just purchased the boat for $4000 as well.

 

[mthieme]

Re: photos of starter

Right now eBay shows 175 Johnson and 152 Evinrude flywheels. The most expensive is $175 and $283 respectively.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: photos of starter

call these guys see what they want for a flywheel. http://www.tcoutboard.com/

 

[BigwayNZ]

Re: photos of starter

Right now eBay shows 175 Johnson and 152 Evinrude flywheels. The most expensive is $175 and $283 respectively.

Is that ebay in australia? Not many US ebay stores ship overseas.

 

[mthieme]

Re: photos of starter

No. It was ebay US. All it takes is one though.

 

[F_R]

Re: photos of starter

Nothing to be afraid of. I've shipped to Australia with no problem. Just ship it via USPS Priority mail. All it takes is money for the postage.

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: photos of starter

How fast you chew up a new starter gear is entirely dependant on how often you use your motor.

I agree with the others that you should replace your flywheel. I also agree that you should be able to find one for a great deal less than a grand - in any currency! You can certainly look on Ebay, but don't overlook outboard mechanic "boneyards." A lot of service shops have a pile of old motors "in the back." Make a few calls to see who might have the flywheel that you need.

As for TD's opinion that your starter might be loose, I would suspect the same thing. Simply put, if the starter on your motor was tight at all times, you probably wouldn't get that type of wear, because a starter that is tightened properly should not move in a way that would allow misalignment of the gears. The damage that you have appears to be exactly that.

I know that its a pain to have to fix both items, but you will most likely cost yourself a great deal more money in the long run, if you don't.

 

[BigwayNZ]

Re: photos of starter

I am the sort of person who likes to fix things the proper way everytime.
However, I have spent a fortune on this boat and am about to spend a bigger fortune on it. I am thinking i will buy something to see me through a few more boat trips and then when my boat gets back from being rebuilt i will find another flywheel. it just does not seem as important as the rest at this moment.

What my mechanic said was that it would cost $1000 for a BRAND new flywheel and that i should look at wreckers for one...i.e. ebay.

I will do this but i will leave it until i get my boat back from being rebuilt and my seats made. I am considering buying a new motor as well during this time.


Thanks for the info guys, I appreciate that I should buy a new flywheel, i just think i might take the cheaper options for one time and then do it the proper way when i have the boat back as it is going away for a a few months at the end of summer. I just need it to get me through this summer.

Makes sense about the starter being loose. it does not feel it though. does not mean it is not though.

 

[F_R]

Re: photos of starter

Our guess was that the starter may have been loose at some time and has been tightened up. But we weren't there, so it is only a guess.

You would be replacing more worn teeth if you only replace the flywheel and keep the old Bendix gear. That doesn't make much sense does it? Just do the Bendix gear if you want, but take some tools along to loosen and unjam the starter when the new teeth bind up against the worn ones 10 miles from the dock. An emergency start rope would be a good idea too.

 

[BigwayNZ]

Re: photos of starter

How could the new teeth of the bendix gear jam up against the flywheel teeth?
The flywheel teeth are not that worn, just a bit.

What i have been doing when it does not connect and start is move the flywheel with my hands so it is past the smaller teeth. They are not much smaller though. From what I see, the bendix teeth are very small and that is the problem. Surely with a new bendix they would not miss the teeth of the flywheel?

 

[jay_merrill]

Re: photos of starter

The Bendix mechanism moves the starter gear up to the flywheel when you engage the key switch. The starter gear is able to mesh with the flywheel teeth easily because both the alignment and the condition of the teeth are the way they are supposed to be. When you get abnormal wear, both the shape of the worn teeth, and the smoothness of the mating surfaces are affected.

When your engine starts and you let off the starter switch, there is no longer pressure between the starter gear teeth and the ring gear teeth. In a normal situation, the Bendix will then allow the starter gear to retract. In the case of abnormally worn ring gear teeth, however, there can be rough edges, etc., which will jam the starter gear. You may or may not run into this problem.

What you do about this is up to you and your plan might work out fine. That said, it sounds to me like what you really want to do, is to get a few trips out of the motor and then replace it, without putting a bunch of money into the old motor. For the 50 to 75 bucks involved in buying a used flywheel, I wouldn't do that, but its not my money, so I can only recommend that you take the advice to keep a starter rope and some tools in the boat at all times.

 

[McGvr]

Re: photos of starter

I agree with the other guys that you should replace both, (drive & flywheel)but I also understand what you want to do. OK you plan on replacing the Starter drive. No guarantees on how long the new drive will last, but you can increase your odds that the drive will survive the rest of the summer.

1)After you replace the drive, turn the motor so the drive matches up with good teeth on the flywheel, by hand turn the starter drive so it engages the flywheel.
what you are looking for is proper alignment, you want to make sure that the drive engages smoothly (no binding)
2) Using a Fine file or emery cloth, remove the burrs from the bad teeth on the flywheel, a slight taper would be good here.
DO NOT go crazy with the file, Removing to much material from on side of the Flywheel can have an adverse effect on its balance.(could set-up vibration in the motor, which would not be good for the crank shaft bearings and seals)

3) Depending on how much material has been removed already you may need to balance the wheel (kinda like bubble balancing a tire) but instead of adding weight to the lite side, you remove material from the heavy side (drill or mill some of the metal out of the wheel) Basically making a divot in the wheel (3/8 -1/2 drill bit) Remove small amounts of material at a time. Recheck the balance. Repeat as needed.
REMEMBER you can always remove more but it's hard to put it back.

McG

 

[F_R]

Re: photos of starter

How could the new teeth of the bendix gear jam up against the flywheel teeth?
The flywheel teeth are not that worn, just a bit.

What i have been doing when it does not connect and start is move the flywheel with my hands so it is past the smaller teeth. They are not much smaller though. From what I see, the bendix teeth are very small and that is the problem. Surely with a new bendix they would not miss the teeth of the flywheel?

Aw, com'on now. Your pictures clearly show severly worn flywheel teeth with flat tops.
Do whatever you want.

 

[BigwayNZ]

Re: photos of starter

Would this flywheel fit onto a 175hp 1988 johnson V6?http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Johnson-225hp-V6-Flywheel_W0QQitemZ280302386495QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Boat_Parts_Accessories?hash=item280302386495&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65:1|39:1|240:1318