Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

[DianneB]

I am working on a 1966 cabin cruiser that has been through at least 4 owners prior to me. This fall I am replacing the helm and that means disconnecting and tracing all the wires. The things I have found are down right scary, things like 12 volt unfused hot wires cut off and dangling around loose in the transom, hot wires wrapped with 1 layer of duct tape and laying directly on the aluminum hull, power feeds that ran from the batteries in the transom to helm amidships and then power feeds from the helm back to the stern, connections made with Marettes, missing ground returns on fuel tanks, etc., etc. We wont even talk about the misuse of silicon (the bathtub type), non-marine fasteners, fuses replaced with WAY over sized fuses ..... and on and on.

If you aren't sure the right way to do something or if you don't have the right materials, PLEASE DON'T DO IT! Find out how, get the right materials, or hire a competent professional.

I can't believe this boat survived as long as it did without a major fire! And as a cabin cruiser, there could have been sleeping people aboard when the fire started.

 

[ufm82]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

It is amazing what people will do due to ignorance or simple laziness. I am continually stunend by the trailers I see at the ramp when I am there- I don't know how some of them even make it to the water. Boats with wiring that is a total disaster, hacked up repairs, the inevitable silicon fix on a hull that if it gives way will probably sink the boat. Backyard mechanics and do-it-yourselfers with no knowledge or ability seem to think it's ok to butcher up a boat. It's just a boat, right?
I had a cuddy for one season and the idiot that had the thing before me had installed a stereo and some other electronics in the boat. Since it was so well done I had to get rid of it before I could even think of riding in it. Wires were just laying in the hull, twisted and black-taped, no fuses or breakers, and were right next to the fuel tank fill. And I really loved the "fix" on the outdrive for the leak- maybe an entire tube of white silicone smeared all over the outdrive. That'll do it!

 

[Chaparralboater]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

I am confused. I had a bon fire on my boats decks this weekend trying to dry out my floor. I started the fire with a wire I hooked up from my battery that I just hit some metal to spark her up.

 

[rwidman]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

It is amazing what people will do due to ignorance or simple laziness. I am continually stunend by the trailers I see at the ramp when I am there- I don't know how some of them even make it to the water. Boats with wiring that is a total disaster, hacked up repairs, the inevitable silicon fix on a hull that if it gives way will probably sink the boat. Backyard mechanics and do-it-yourselfers with no knowledge or ability seem to think it's ok to butcher up a boat. It's just a boat, right?
I had a cuddy for one season and the idiot that had the thing before me had installed a stereo and some other electronics in the boat. Since it was so well done I had to get rid of it before I could even think of riding in it. Wires were just laying in the hull, twisted and black-taped, no fuses or breakers, and were right next to the fuel tank fill. And I really loved the "fix" on the outdrive for the leak- maybe an entire tube of white silicone smeared all over the outdrive. That'll do it!

And yet these forums are full of people who obviously don't have a clue, asking how to wire a boat, batteries, etc., or trying to "restore" a thirty year old rusted steel trailer. They aren't going to know what to do with the answers even if the answers are correct.

None of us knows everything about everything. It's impossible. Some jobs have to be turned over to the pros.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

I particularly enjoy when they use parallel taps, usually about 20, and the wiring under the dash looks like a spider web. Doesn't anyone know about terminal strips and bus bars?

 

[DianneB]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

Doesn't anyone know about terminal strips and bus bars?

ROFL! Apparently NOT!

That was one of the things that amazed me - the @$#%# rat's nest of wires that would have been impossible to figure out on the lake if something quit. And the disorganization of running a power feed to the transom from the helm when the battery is in the back! It is a 24 foot boat and some circuits managed to get a 50 foot feed length!

Nobody "knows everything" but there are good information sources all over - a person just has to read, pay attention to what they read, and learn to sort the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Aviator5]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

Unfortunately that kind of job could be done by someone who calls himself as a "pro".

 

[DianneB]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

Unfortunately that kind of job could be done by someone who calls himself as a "pro".

I am beginning to realize that! I wondered if I should "hang out my shingle" but then I realized most people wouldn't know the difference in quality and would go for "cheap".

 

[USMCMatt]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

It's your own fault for buying a used boat and not checking it yourself, I'm guessing it's not showroom quality - so there should of been some investigation, don't blame others, blame yourself.

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

It's your own fault for buying a used boat and not checking it yourself, I'm guessing it's not showroom quality - so there should of been some investigation, don't blame others, blame yourself.

I'm pretty sure the OP had an idea of what she was getting into beforehand and was simply making a statement that it shouldn't have gotten to that point in the first place...

 

[Jakebob]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

It's your own fault for buying a used boat and not checking it yourself, I'm guessing it's not showroom quality - so there should of been some investigation, don't blame others, blame yourself.

Harsh and not the point. The frustration is over correcting short-cuts and laziness of POs, not the purchase.

I wouldn't let wiring hacks stop me from buying a boat, but buying it wouldn't stop me from throwing tools while trying to make it right.

S/F
Jake

 

[rwidman]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

I wouldn't let wiring hacks stop me from buying a boat,....................

There would be a significant amount taken from the offer to account for correcting the mess.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

Hey don't yell at us, we all do it right! it's the non-Iboat population you want to yell at!

I know that with my own old boats, I may decide on some short-cuts and by-passes, but I know where they are. If someone ends up with my boat they will be cussing, too. Same with my old houses (I'm on my fourth). I am excluding the dangerous ones here.

A big problem is that boats aren't usually built with good wire chases for installing or replacing wiring once the boat is built. The worst is the blown-in foam that entombs your wires to the bow light, etc. and after you've clipped it a few times to replace the fitting, there's no wire to grab. I replaced my wiring on a 17' but had to abandon the old wiring in place; it wouldn't pull through, so there is a big mess back there up under.

I think when you buy an old boat you just ahve to [plan on total rewire--at least for a saltie. This is also why I disfavor hard-wired extras--a battery powered boom box won't put your whole boat's operations at risk like a stereo can.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

don't just assume it was a previous owner, manufacturers have been know to pull some really questionable stuff too!

i was redoing some wiring on a class C motorhome earlier this year. Upon digging into it, I found a 1/0 gauge wire that connects the factory generator to the house battery up front. Its roughly 30+ feet of cable that snakes in and out of the frame, often running right next to the fuel lines. Not a single fuse or breaker anywhere in that link. Yep, 30 some feet of very large cable, directly connected to a very large battery, all exposed to the road elements. (as well as going through rusty holes in the frame.)

 

[ewenm]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

hang on didn't we just recently have a post from an owner frustrated because they had taken there boat to a supposed pro repairer, and they had tossed it in as being to hard or beyond there skills.

what makes you think that pros know what they are doing,

seems to me most balance quality with the buck, house rule the buck generally wins.

if you are not happy with the way the previous owner did stuff on HIS boat, either dont buy it or buy it and fix it,

i dont get your beef

 

[DANZIG]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

Sounds like a mess. And too am still cussing my cuddy's POs

But even I (handyman extrondanaire LOL!) before finding this place and after years of boating and advise from long time boaters, discovered that some I had done, and some I had planned, was not up to snuff.

If we can turn more folks on to this site, perhaps we can prevent some of it!

 

[DianneB]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

I expected, when buying a 44 year old boat, to find wear & neglect but the boat was exactly the kind of "Old Classic" that I love. What I did NOT expect to find was multiple dangerous conditions that would have been super easy to prevent!

Yes, I know some "pros" don't know what they are doing but the good ones will either decline work they know is out of their speciality or find out how to do it.

Yes, I know manufacturers don't always do things the best way - cost is a factor for them and also standards change with time. My first boat was a 1958 cruiser and the current project is a 1966 Chrysler-built boat - both were wired with automotive wire so I suppose there wasn't a requirement for "marine grade" wire then. After seeing the condition of the factory wiring after 44 years of fresh water use I have to say the original wiring was in great shape - only very minor rust on quick-connects and ring terminals. The main problem was with the adds and changes over the years.

After nearly 40 years in engineering, design, and building of all kinds of things professionally I guess the point I want to make to people is to DO A GOOD JOB! It doesn't take much longer and the information on HOW to do it is available. There is no reason to risk your own safety and security and if you have guests aboard your boat, you have no right to risk theirs.

There is a sign I have seen in many engineering offices and shops that sums it up perfectly. It just says:

THINK!

 

[proshadetree]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

I say amen Reverend. Add on,s on a ship that old could possibly stress a circuit to its limits. Most boats were not built to handle cd radios, multi disk changers and amps galore. Then you tag on the moving bow light and the party lights under the deck. When the fuse blows they just cram in a bigger one. A wire size is meant to handle a certain size fuse. A16 gauge wire with a 30 amp fuse is asking for trouble. should have been no more than a 10amp. It happens in cars, boats and Lord forbid breakers in homes. Check your wiring people it is the best way to start a fire.

 

[Mohawkmtrs]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

I have a sign that I put up in my garage...

"Think...or Thwim".

 

['96 Charger]

Re: Please do it RIGHT or don't do it!

Funny this thread came about because I was going to start a similar one myself. My boat is only 15 years old but am doing some wiring repairs on it. I'm BIG into car audio and doing it right so 12v wiring is second nature to me. I HATE HATE HATE quick disconnects, butt connectors, and trailer wire taps. It doesn't take much longer to solder a connection and properly protect it. I flipped a switch on my panel just the other day and wondered why the pro air for one of my livewells came on without a fuse even being installed. That's another wire I'm going to have to trace and go to the fuse panel. Also need to replace the ground wires going to the back. They're in pretty sad shape. My rule of thumb is if you can't make rhyme or reason of the flustercluck wiring you're best off running fresh new wire and calling it a day. Doing so will keep your language at least pg13 rated and take a fraction of the time. Right now I'm thinking I need more switches on the panel lol.