Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

[CJY]

Many are complaining about the lack of support W received from the Democrats during his address.

Here is a news flash for some of you. His own party is not buying it either. He is losing more and more of their support, almost daily.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070124/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq


Furthermore, it is not that the democrats or republicans don't think the US can win. It's that they don't believe W's plan will be successful. Hmmmm, there is a history....correct? If you want results, bring Norman S. back and give him the power to get the job done. But then again, W probably does not like what he has already been told aout the situation by him.

W put all of his eggs in one basket last time, and look at the results, an unsecure Baghdad after several years of war. Congress and the majority of US citizens are hesitant / unwilling to do it again. I wonder if the ousted republican congress would be willing to jump on his boat again.

 

[JB]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

And what, CJY, is your plan?

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

tactical nukes

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

Oh good plan. Nuclear holocaust. That's the answer.

 

[CJY]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

Definately not throw money and/or soldiers at it.

BTW JB, I told you. Let Norman S. handle it. He is trained and has proven his ability in tactical warfaire. I believe this would be an excellent start. If not Norman, then someone else who is qualified.

We heard Norman speak to us many, many times during the Gulf War. Do you not wonder why our military commanders are not talking to us now? Could it be because W has tied their hands with his own bullheaded plans.....with his own desire to be credited with victory? Quote, W said, "my mind is made up." How open-minded of a statement.

Don't tell me our military strategist have planned this, if this were so, they would be taking credit for it because W would be pointing at them. Rummy took a fall, did he not?

 

[Pony]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

I think the original objective was complete upon the capture and eventual killing of Saddam.....

Now we are "stuck" cleaning up, something that most Americans right now don't think we should be doing.................yet if we don't we are really just allowing for the possibility of it all happening again.

I think we learned a lesson after WWI, and that woud be to not leave a country in turmoil and allow for the rise of a tyrant..................Hitler.

I would think the plan requires more troops. Lets end these limited war tactics that we have become entrenched with since the a-bomb, and get this thing done. Maybe drawing it out so long is costing more lives than just sending more troops and finishing it sooner.

 

[LadyFish]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

I think that since this is a war like no other in the history of our fighting soldiers, it will continue to be a learning experience with new tactics and constant change on a daily basis in order to adapt to the enemy and its threat.

This will be ongoing or at least until we have someone else in Presidential power, then we will pull out and have to suffer those consequences.

 

[CJY]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

LF,

What consequences? We have no clue what those may or may not be...only speculation which may be in an effort to further propagate this war.

Yes, I understand we are in this for the long haul. That being said, I don't understand the problem with handing this war over to a person(s) that truly understands war and how to operate a tactical offensive.

 

[CJY]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070124/ap_on_go_co/us_iraq

How can so many people be wrong and one proven failure(W) be right? I'm sorry, I need help to understand this.

I want it to be successful....but if it is a failure, what will the cost be this time? This must be removed from the hands of W and be given to someone else with the knowledge to be successful.

 

[JB]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

Stormin' Norman was fighting a very different war, CJY.

Thought I would point that out because you seem to have overlooked it.

The idea that my President has made these decisions without conferring with people who know what is really happening and are not pandering to the press and public "opinion" is pure nonsense. If SN has any ideas or suggestions to offer you can be sure that my President has listened.

To paraphrase a bit, "I conferred with my generals and DOD people. We considered all alternatives and I have decided that this is the most likely to work."

I take, "to work" to mean "achieve success", and it does not leave out diplomatic initiatives and efforts that he also mentioned. As well, he mentioned the removal of restrictive rules and restrictive places of engagement.

I have heard no realistic proposals from detractors that include an intent to succeed, only to surrender.

A diplomatic/political solution can only begin in an environment in which the warring sectarian factions in Iraq see it as their best chance to get what they want. A sound butt kicking in places that used to be refuges is likely to convince them of that.

Let me remind you of something that the press doesn't want you to know: Coalition forces have not lost a single battle, or even skirmish, to the so called "insurgents". It is only their ability to hide in places we haven't been allowed to go that keeps any of them alive.

A diplomatic/political solution to the war on terror is a little less likely than Charlie Manson getting the Nobel Peace Prize.

Finally, one of the sad facts about diplomacy, international or domestic, is this:

If you have a better idea or a valuable suggestion that has been rejected after a hearing it is not from stubbornness or bull headedness of the decision maker, it is because your presentation and persuasion failed to persuade, or your idea was fatally flawed.

 

[QC]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

I'm with LadyFish. New (F'ed up) world, new enemies, new obstacles, new tactics. I'm for pulling out when there are no (or a lot fewer) "really bad people doing really bad stuff".

CJY,

"Everything" is not "wonderful now". Feel better?

 

[aspeck]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

Last time I checked, no one has ever LED efficiently when LEADING BY COMMITTEE or by public opinion. It is called leading for a reason ... not following. Sometimes leading means you do the unpopular thing. Sometimes what you do is wrong, and sometimes it is right. You never know till AFTER you do it. President Bush is LEADING, and history will judge the job he is doing.

 

[crunch]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

CJY asks,

What consequences? We have no clue what those may or may not be...only speculation which may be in an effort to further propagate this war.

Saudi Arabia has already stated, PUBLICLY, that they would go in to protect the Sunni minority from slaughter if the US pulls out prematurely. They wouldn't be happy about it and we would most likely lose the only Arab friend we have over there.

You can pretty well bet your last dollar that Iran would see our pull out as an open invitation to come on in, they'd love to have Iraq’s oil reserves.

So think about it.... how much oil would be coming out of that region if Iran and Saudi Arabia were going at it? How many 100's of thousands of civilian casualties? Think it might just touch off a regional conflict involving all of the countries around there?

Before you go bashing someone else’s plan, you best have a better one and at least consider the consequences of your plan.

 

[CJY]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

"Before you go bashing someone else’s plan, you best have a better one and at least consider the consequences of your plan. "


What? Are you serious? I could understand this statement if I had a hand in getting us into this mess. So no, I don't need a plan to be critical.

What are the consequences of putting someone in charge that understands war strategy?

QC,

"None or fewer"

? Big diff between none and fewer. How many does it take to fly a plane into a building or drive a truck loaded with explosives into a heavily populated area.

Problem I see, we can never, ever, ever, have "none."

I simply want someone in charge of Iraq that has a clue to war strategy. I don't want to hear W tell me in 2 months everything is going as planned. If experience has taught us anything from the Iraqi war, it is that when W says all is going as planned, it really means everything is falling apart and we don't know what to do next.

"you can be sure that my President has listened."

No, I cannot be sure.


"Last time I checked, no one has ever LED efficiently when LEADING BY COMMITTEE or by public opinion."


Crazy talk aspeck. Let me clue you in, Vice Prez, Secretary of Defense....etc, etc. Are they nothing more than figure heads. May well be with this Prez.

 

[crunch]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

What? Are you serious? I could understand this statement if I had a hand in getting us into this mess. So no, I don't need a plan to be critical.

Spoken like a true Liberal.

 

[CJY]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

What? Are you serious? I could understand this statement if I had a hand in getting us into this mess. So no, I don't need a plan to be critical.

Spoken like a true Liberal.

Probably one of the dumbest things I have heard you say. On one hand you want every citizen to be responsible for their own welfare, their own health care, their own financial needs, their own education. While on the other hand, you want me to take responsibility for something I am not responsible for.

Spoken like a true hypocrite.

 

[crunch]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

Hmmm.... I must have hit pretty close to home there.

 

[CJY]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

good one

 

[treedancer]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....


Unfortunately CJY we as a nation are on the hook for the follies of the President, we have to clean this mess up. That being said everything that I have read says that this General, is very well thought of in the military, maybe the best. I surely hope so, for we have to right that this ship which this band of fools has got us into. That doesn’t mean that we have to forget the name of the ship that brought them. I believe that most American s thought of that last Nov, and will remember it again in two years.

Unfortunately this was about oil and our need for it, if we should leave now as other docksiders have said, the whole area will blow up into war between Sunni’s and Shih. You have Iran, itching to get into the fray, Saudi Arabia standing on the sideline with new aircraft that we sold them on the other sideline. Looks like that old song,” were stuck in the middle with you”, the you being Iraq.

Check this link out might make you feel a little better. I kind of like this quote he made.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/24/world/middleeast/24general.html

<<By the end of the hearing, General Petraeus sought to extricate himself from the political tussle by insisting that as a military man he did not want to take a position on the Senate debate. “There are a number of resolutions out there,” he said. “Learning that minefields are best avoided and gone around rather than walked through on some occasions, I’d like to leave that one there.”>>

 

[rogerwa]

Re: Please don't tell me everything is wonderful now....

At this point it doesn't matter whether you or the dems had a hand in getting into this (which the dems did regardless of the revisionist history. There is audio. Anything other than that is misrepresentation and the over arching need to obtain power on the back of Bush hatred).

The US can be overwhelmingly victorious. It just depends on how much we want it. At the far end of the spectrum, which I do not support, is to literally pound them into submission. We could achieve success. In many cases the democrats do not want it. That is witnessed by Ms Pelosi not clapping when Bush was asking all to rally for success.

We are not on the verge of defeat. Not even close. However, to our enemy ( and I hope we all agree we have an enemy), shooting down a chopper is a victory. Allowing them to win in our hearts and have us exit because we cannot agree to win will be a huge defeat to the US being a great nation. This will impact us not only in the Islamic world, but with China and NK and Russia. We would be the great paper tiger. And we would have proven it.

It is like parenting. If you fight in front of the kids and disagree in front of them, they will work you from both ends and never respect you. If you disagree in private and present a common front, you will be effective parents.

The politics driving the dissention at this point is disgusting, destructive, and greedy. Repbulicans and democrats. We need to present a common from and a steadfast resolve unless your not interested in victory. End of story.